Flexible work form request on a variable-hours contract

BrassicWoman

why are you so allergic to having a conversation? there's the law, and having the law enforced, and knowledge of the law does not guarantee it'll be followed. have a chat!!

Marcon

Irving7 said:

An employment contract, whether signed or not, does not supersede the Employment Rights Act.

In addition, and as you can see, the contract I signed does not explicitly specify working hours, but it does allow for variation.
By default of hours being 'varied', I am surely already considered a flexible employee. How can a flexible employee be asked to fill out a request form to work flexibly? It doesn't make any sense...

A point I made in my post several days ago:

Marcon said:

Given you don't have fixed hours, and can't do your job from home,  it's hard to see how a flexible working request would be appropriate.

Not sure why you're continuing to post here, when it isn't going to resolve or progress anything with your employer. Without seeing your full contract and terms of employment, there's not much anyone can add.

Irving7

BrassicWoman said:

why are you so allergic to having a conversation? there's the law, and having the law enforced, and knowledge of the law does not guarantee it'll be followed. have a chat!!

Allergic to having a conversation? There is an ongoing conversation...albeit delayed due to emails. There are obvious reasons for talking about such matters through email as opposed to a verbal chat.

And, yes, usually the law does guarantee compliance because the consequences of ignoring it could prove very costly.

Marcon said:

Irving7 said:

An employment contract, whether signed or not, does not supersede the Employment Rights Act.

In addition, and as you can see, the contract I signed does not explicitly specify working hours, but it does allow for variation.
By default of hours being 'varied', I am surely already considered a flexible employee. How can a flexible employee be asked to fill out a request form to work flexibly? It doesn't make any sense...

A point I made in my post several days ago:

Marcon said:

Given you don't have fixed hours, and can't do your job from home,  it's hard to see how a flexible working request would be appropriate.

Not sure why you're continuing to post here, when it isn't going to resolve or progress anything with your employer. Without seeing your full contract and terms of employment, there's not much anyone can add.

Indeed.

I have continued to post here because my employer has failed to offer an explanation, even when pressed, other than "We've spoken to HR and it's our legal right to decline your flexible work request". Like most people who post on these forums, I'm trying to get a better understanding from people who might know more than me.

BrassicWoman

And, yes, usually the law does guarantee compliance because the consequences of ignoring it could prove very costly.

That's simply not true; huge amounts of non compliance never get challenged. There is also a long backlog.

https://www.lewissilkin.com/en/insights/employment-tribunal-delays-as-the-wait-gets-worse-what-can-employers-do

Conversation, not shutting the door after the horse has bolted, is the way.

housebuyer143

Irving7 said:

BrassicWoman said:

why are you so allergic to having a conversation? there's the law, and having the law enforced, and knowledge of the law does not guarantee it'll be followed. have a chat!!

Allergic to having a conversation? There is an ongoing conversation...albeit delayed due to emails. There are obvious reasons for talking about such matters through email as opposed to a verbal chat.

And, yes, usually the law does guarantee compliance because the consequences of ignoring it could prove very costly.

Marcon said:

Irving7 said:

An employment contract, whether signed or not, does not supersede the Employment Rights Act.

In addition, and as you can see, the contract I signed does not explicitly specify working hours, but it does allow for variation.
By default of hours being 'varied', I am surely already considered a flexible employee. How can a flexible employee be asked to fill out a request form to work flexibly? It doesn't make any sense...

A point I made in my post several days ago:

Marcon said:

Given you don't have fixed hours, and can't do your job from home,  it's hard to see how a flexible working request would be appropriate.

Not sure why you're continuing to post here, when it isn't going to resolve or progress anything with your employer. Without seeing your full contract and terms of employment, there's not much anyone can add.

Indeed.

I have continued to post here because my employer has failed to offer an explanation, even when pressed, other than "We've spoken to HR and it's our legal right to decline your flexible work request". Like most people who post on these forums, I'm trying to get a better understanding from people who might know more than me.

Legally though an employer can decline your flexible working request and there is nothing you can do?  I mean, they haven't given you an answer but if you press them they will probably just say it isn't compatible with business needs which is an easy get out clause. 

Lots of employers do not follow the law btw. To quote my old workplace when I showed them they were not giving part timers the legal minimum holidays a year, was to say that the gov.uk website (aka the law) was only aimed at larger firms! Most people just leave and don't take it further. 

Annisele

Your employer is certainly right to say, in principle, that it is allowed to decline a flexible working requests. Not all such refusals would be lawful - but since it doesn't sound as though you've even made a request, I don't see anything actionable here.

If your employer is saying "if you make a request not to work Thursdays, it's unlikely we'd agree to your request", then that may or may not be reasonable. Given what you've said, it's possible that agreeing to your request would have a negative impact on your employer's ability to meet customer demand - in which case turning you down would likely be perfectly lawful.

I'd also be careful about the argument that you have a zero hours contract. Your employer might end up saying "yes, you're right, it is indeed a zero hours contract - that means we can't prevent you from working Saturdays for the other place - but it also means we don't fancy giving you any more shifts ever again, and there's nothing you can do about that because you've just agreed with us that it's a zero hours contract". If you'd be OK with that outcome, great. Otherwise, I'm with the people who suggest sensible conversation (in person, and not over email) - and documenting your agreement only once you've actually agreed it.

Savvy_Sue

Even if they agree you don't have to work Thursdays, they can still refuse your request to take an additional job.

Marcon

Irving7 said:

BrassicWoman said:

why are you so allergic to having a conversation? there's the law, and having the law enforced, and knowledge of the law does not guarantee it'll be followed. have a chat!!

Allergic to having a conversation? There is an ongoing conversation...albeit delayed due to emails. There are obvious reasons for talking about such matters through email as opposed to a verbal chat.

And, yes, usually the law does guarantee compliance because the consequences of ignoring it could prove very costly.

Marcon said:

Irving7 said:

An employment contract, whether signed or not, does not supersede the Employment Rights Act.

In addition, and as you can see, the contract I signed does not explicitly specify working hours, but it does allow for variation.
By default of hours being 'varied', I am surely already considered a flexible employee. How can a flexible employee be asked to fill out a request form to work flexibly? It doesn't make any sense...

A point I made in my post several days ago:

Marcon said:

Given you don't have fixed hours, and can't do your job from home,  it's hard to see how a flexible working request would be appropriate.

Not sure why you're continuing to post here, when it isn't going to resolve or progress anything with your employer. Without seeing your full contract and terms of employment, there's not much anyone can add.

Indeed.

I have continued to post here because my employer has failed to offer an explanation, even when pressed, other than "We've spoken to HR and it's our legal right to decline your flexible work request". Like most people who post on these forums, I'm trying to get a better understanding from people who might know more than me.

I'm getting more and more confused. In your opening post a week ago, you said the following:

I, therefore, sought employment elsewhere and I have now agreed to work Saturdays only, for a different employer, starting next term. Not keen on working 7 days a week, I submitted my 4 weeks' notice to discontinue working on Thursdays, for my main employer.

Now onto the main question:

Should I be required to fill out a flexible work form request wherein I can only make one request within a 12-month period and they have the legal right to decline such a request? 

1. What was their response to your notice to discontinue working on Thursdays?
2. Have you actually made a formal flexible work request?
3. Has your main employer given consent to your taking a second job?