Another LGPS pension transfer question - historic

leosayer

Silvertabby said:

xylophone said:

Annoyingly she has retained payslips prior to 1996 but none after that and no pension paperwork at all. I'm surprised because she normally retains most paperwork.

And none of them show pension contributions?

It seems significant that up to 1996 no pension contributions are shown but the LA record shows membership from 1997.

Is it possible that she opted out of joining in 1990 but opted in in 1997?

See

https://democracy.npt.gov.uk/Data/Personnel Committee/20031002/Agenda/$PERS-021003-REP-HS-U.doc.pdf

1. From April 1990

   •   The one year qualifying period for manual workers was removed

   •   All eligible employees automatically brought into scheme but part timers still

     had to elect to join

   •   Anyone could opt-out 

Or was part time, and didn't opt in?

Never part time.

No recollection of opting out of the pension and I think it's very unlikely that she would have done that.

However I see no sign of any pension contributions on the pre-97 payslips. 

hyubh

leosayer said:

Silvertabby said:

xylophone said:

Annoyingly she has retained payslips prior to 1996 but none after that and no pension paperwork at all. I'm surprised because she normally retains most paperwork.

And none of them show pension contributions?

It seems significant that up to 1996 no pension contributions are shown but the LA record shows membership from 1997.

Is it possible that she opted out of joining in 1990 but opted in in 1997?

See

https://democracy.npt.gov.uk/Data/Personnel Committee/20031002/Agenda/$PERS-021003-REP-HS-U.doc.pdf

1. From April 1990

   •   The one year qualifying period for manual workers was removed

   •   All eligible employees automatically brought into scheme but part timers still

     had to elect to join

   •   Anyone could opt-out 

Or was part time, and didn't opt in?

Never part time.

No recollection of opting out of the pension and I think it's very unlikely that she would have done that.

However I see no sign of any pension contributions on the pre-97 payslips. 

What did her previous annual benefit statements show? If she transferred in 2003, then there should have been one for every year from 2005 to the present. If not actual dates, I would expect an account of reckonable service in years and days broken down (from 2009) by accrual type (the figure for 80ths or pre-April 2008 pension would be the relevant one for the present issue).

xylophone

Try the SAR route as in my previous post?

leosayer

Some further historic paperwork has materialised from the bowls of our kitchen cupboard generating some spousal tension.

Within this bundle is a pension choice election form that my wife signed in April 1997. 

The heading reads "Having commenced employment with an admitted body, you may elect to join the Local Government Pension Scheme, administered by the City of Westminster.".

The form has space for 'Date Commenced Employment' which my wife has completed with November 1990. Other documentation (including subsequent LGPS statement from 1997) confirm the date of admission to the pension as 1997.

So the source of the 1997 date is now clear. Not sure a SAR will be of help now.

It's not clear what gave rise to the completion of the form, whether:
1. My wife had opted out of the pension when she commenced employment in 1990 - and then opted in in 1997 or
2. There was no pension available from 1990 to 1997 or
3. She had a different pension or employment arrangement in place from 1990 to 1997 or
4. Something else we're missing

Thanks to all who have given help so far. I feel we might be at the end of the road now but any more pointers gratefully received.

QrizB

leosayer said:

Some further historic paperwork has materialised from the bowls of our kitchen cupboard generating some spousal tension.

I hate it when that happens!

Good luck, I hope you can sort everything out.

xylophone

Some further historic paperwork has materialised from the bowls of our kitchen cupboard 

Sounds less grisly (and more plausible) than bowels... :)

Within this bundle is a pension choice election form that my wife signed in April 1997. 

The heading reads "Having commenced employment with an admitted body, you may elect to join the Local Government Pension Scheme, administered by the City of Westminster.".

She had commenced employment with Housing  Corporation in 1990. Why should she suddenly have received this communication in 1997?

I still think that it is worth trying the SAR route just to check .

Looking at your wife's  pre 1997 pay slips, what is the letter shown on the NI line? D? N? A? Something else?

xylophone

I suppose it is possible that HC only became an "admitted body" in 1997?

If it wasn't an admitted body, it seems unlikely that there was no pension scheme in place in an NDPS -  it would seem likely that any such pension would have been a defined benefit contracted out scheme and could possibly have been non- contributory.

Or if it was an admitted body when your wife commenced employment in 1990, your wife was in a category of staff (pre April joiner?)  having to elect to join the scheme (and she didn't so elect)?

leosayer

xylophone said:

Some further historic paperwork has materialised from the bowls of our kitchen cupboard 

Sounds less grisly (and more plausible) than bowels... :)

Within this bundle is a pension choice election form that my wife signed in April 1997. 

The heading reads "Having commenced employment with an admitted body, you may elect to join the Local Government Pension Scheme, administered by the City of Westminster.".

She had commenced employment with Housing  Corporation in 1990. Why should she suddenly have received this communication in 1997?

I still think that it is worth trying the SAR route just to check .

Looking at your wife's  pre 1997 pay slips, what is the letter shown on the NI line? D? N? A? Something else?

Good question. I can't find any material that states the reason behind the communication.

The NI letter on the payslips from the pre-1997 period is 'A'.

There is also a deduction for 'MSF' of £6.37 per month - I assume this is union membership, it's too small for anything else.

I'll discuss the SAR with my wife. This would only be for LGPS though so I assume it will be a long shot that we'll discover anything from before the 1997 change.

Silvertabby

leosayer said:

xylophone said:

Some further historic paperwork has materialised from the bowls of our kitchen cupboard 

Sounds less grisly (and more plausible) than bowels... :)

Within this bundle is a pension choice election form that my wife signed in April 1997. 

The heading reads "Having commenced employment with an admitted body, you may elect to join the Local Government Pension Scheme, administered by the City of Westminster.".

She had commenced employment with Housing  Corporation in 1990. Why should she suddenly have received this communication in 1997?

I still think that it is worth trying the SAR route just to check .

Looking at your wife's  pre 1997 pay slips, what is the letter shown on the NI line? D? N? A? Something else?

Good question. I can't find any material that states the reason behind the communication.

The NI letter on the payslips from the pre-1997 period is 'A'.

There is also a deduction for 'MSF' of £6.37 per month - I assume this is union membership, it's too small for anything else.

I'll discuss the SAR with my wife. This would only be for LGPS though so I assume it will be a long shot that we'll discover anything from before the 1997 change.

NI code A means that your wife paid full rate NI.  If she had been a member of a contracted out DB scheme, then her code would have been D.

It's looking more and more likely she wasn't a member of the pension scheme before 1997, so the only question now is 'why'.  If your wife is 100% sure that she didn't originally opt out, then you may wish to push for employer error - but it won't be easy to prove and, even if successful, she would still have to pay her 7 years worth of contributions. 

MSF was almost certainly her Union subscription.

hyubh

leosayer said:

The NI letter on the payslips from the pre-1997 period is 'A'.

So contracted in, and therefore likely not a member of an occupational pension scheme at that point (certainly not the LGPS or another public sector scheme, which were only ever contracted out)...