NHS Pension - 1995 Section - delaying retirement

Tom_Bradbury

Thank for all the help - that's all been really useful.

As a linked question - if retiring at 60 under the 1995 section, so taking a pension and lump sum, and then returning to work almost immediately and continuing to pay contributions under the 2015 section, would it be possible to continue paying into a SIPP and if so, will the Money Purchase Annual Allowance rules apply, meaning there is a £10,000 limit on contributions to a SIPP?

From what I understand, there is no specific limit (other than the standard annual allowance limits) on continuing contributions to the 2015 Section because that's a Defined Benefit pension scheme???

I assume the standard annual allowance (£60K) is effectively reduced by money purchase annual allowance (£10K)?

QrizB

Tom_Bradbury said:

As a linked question - if retiring at 60 under the 1995 section ... will the Money Purchase Annual Allowance rules apply, meaning there is a £10,000 limit on contributions to a SIPP?

The MPAA applies if you take taxable flexible pension benefits - which generally means doing something (other than buying an annuity) with the taxable 75% of a DC scheme.
Taking a PCLS and a pension from a DB scheme won't invoke the MPAA, as I understand it.

ggmf

Also check with your organisation what this may mean for your current T's & C's, as you are resigning and rejoining.

I'm hearing different stories, some organisations allow you to rejoin on your existing terms (leave entitlement etc.) others deem this as a 'new' contract. So any uplift in standard holiday entitlement due to service etc. is lost, though rules are changing all the time.

spaniel101

ggmf said:

Also check with your organisation what this may mean for your current T's & C's, as you are resigning and rejoining.

I'm hearing different stories, some organisations allow you to rejoin on your existing terms (leave entitlement etc.) others deem this as a 'new' contract. So any uplift in standard holiday entitlement due to service etc. is lost, though rules are changing all the time.

Agenda for Change T's & C's:  Section 12   Reckonable Service

12.1:  An Employee's Continuous previous service with any NHS Employer counts as Reckonable Service in respect of NHS agreements on redundancy, maternity, sick pay and annual leave.

Tom_Bradbury

spaniel101 said:

ggmf said:

Also check with your organisation what this may mean for your current T's & C's, as you are resigning and rejoining.

I'm hearing different stories, some organisations allow you to rejoin on your existing terms (leave entitlement etc.) others deem this as a 'new' contract. So any uplift in standard holiday entitlement due to service etc. is lost, though rules are changing all the time.

Agenda for Change T's & C's:  Section 12   Reckonable Service

12.1:  An Employee's Continuous previous service with any NHS Employer counts as Reckonable Service in respect of NHS agreements on redundancy, maternity, sick pay and annual leave.

So, based on that section in the Agenda for Change Ts and Cs, I'm assuming that, unless there has been a local agreement to move away form AfC T&Cs, then if somebody retires to get their benefits under the 1995 Section and returns to work and continues to accrue benefits under the 2015 Section, then they will also retain their continuous employment to maintain their entitlement for redundancy, maternity (at 60???), sick pay and annual leave benefits.  Sounds a bit like having your cake and eating it! Can that really be true?

spaniel101

Correct.   Under Agenda for Change protected T's & C's, you retain all your previous continuous employment  rights/entitlements.

Purplelady65

When you retire and return there is a break in service and you would be issued with a new contract. You would not maintain continuous service. That’s why you have to have a minimum period between retiring and returning. In addition new rules and options are coming in October 2023. 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/looking-after-our-people/the-programme-and-resources/pensions-and-flexible-working-in-your-later-career/retire-and-return/

spaniel101

Purplelady65 said:

When you retire and return there is a break in service and you would be issued with a new contract. You would not maintain continuous service. That’s why you have to have a minimum period between retiring and returning. In addition new rules and options are coming in October 2023. 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/looking-after-our-people/the-programme-and-resources/pensions-and-flexible-working-in-your-later-career/retire-and-return/

Last sentence is correct.  

The second sentence above (in bold) is incorrect.


You can have multiple contracts over your lifetime in the nhs.   Your rights are protected under the Terms and Conditions of Agenda for Change. 

Another new contract is irrelevant.   

You retain all rights and entitlements of previous continuous employment, which is reckonable, over your lifetime (under Agenda for change).  

dripdo

If you are still 'Linked/Coupled' through transition into the 2015 scheme (no break in service of more than 5 years), you retain continuous service with 'Final Salary Link' up until the Date of Retirement (best of last 3 years salary).

SO, If I partially retire now at NPA for 95 scheme (60) but don’t fully retire until 2029. Will my 95 pension be calculate on the salary at time of partial retirement OR at time of full retirement?

crv1963

If you don't claim the 1995 pension at age 60 years old you are losing money monthly moving forward as there is no form of "back claiming". After age 60 you can return to NHS employment with no reduction in hours/ earnings needed.

Our trust actively encourages retire and return, basically I retired returned to the same post, same team, same pay scale and employment rights. Only differences to was I had to have the compulsory 24 hour break in service so retired 30 April returned 2 May, got a new payroll number and of course if I ever get made redundant my reckonable pay is from when I started this ne contract due to AfC rules over claiming pension and redundancy.