How do I appeal- season ticket and also out of time NTK leased vehicle

mrpogue

This is a bit of a strange one. Thank you to anyone who reads and responds with advice. 

My husbands Ltd company leases a vehicle from a company and so far so good. Husband parks said vehicle in a car park near his office each day. This car park is run by NCP.

We got a flurry of emails from the lease company including that they have received a ‘notice to keeper’ from NCP for parking charges (around 10 charges). We were shocked as we have a season ticket direct debit from our business account. Turns out that for some reason unknown to us, that NCP has stopped the direct debit and actually our season ticket ran out 6 months ago. No emails from them asking us to reinstate our direct debit. I have evidence by way of bank statements showing regular payments and an invoice saying ‘direct debit’ as well as the direct debit showing up on my bank accounts with the start date. In all honesty, I set up this direct debit in good faith as our small (and struggling) family business is a regular user of the car park. I just expected it to tick on and didn't realise the last two payments haven't come out. 

Looking more closely at the NTKs to the lease company, the letters are all dated outside of the 14 days period of the incident (for example incident 29th June, letter dated 24th July), often up to a month. They are all in July of this year with one at the end of June.  They dont mention the PFOA.

I dont think its our fault that NCP havent taken the money and then have come back on us with charges. Should I write to them and explain about the season ticket (I have immediately reinstated it) or should I just appeal on the basis of the time period? There is one dated within the time period so I am happy to pay that.

Any advice is very appreciated. I am super stressed because the timing of this has been awful!

Thanks

Umkomaas

Has the lease company formally transferred liability from themselves to your husband (or perhaps to his business), or have they just sent him copies of their NtKs and asked him to deal with them (that doesn't work!)?

mrpogue

Hello. The lease company have simply forwarded to us and asked us to pay it and added a processing charge. We have advised them we are appealing and they have acknowledged this. 

Coupon-mad

mrpogue said:

Hello. The lease company have simply forwarded to us and asked us to pay it and added a processing charge. We have advised them we are appealing and they have acknowledged this. 

Does their letter say they have provided the issuer with your details?

mrpogue

No it doesn't. But they have reminded us that we are to deal with any fines or infringements as part of the T&Cs. 

Coupon-mad

OK so you must appeal all if them (do them in date order, one by one) online to the parking firm.

You might not be able to do the June one but crack on with all the rest as they are time-bound.  Come back when you've done them.

Just go to the NEWBIES FAQS Announcement thread and use the generic (blue writing, there's only one) appeal template.

NOT THE SPECIAL ONE LOWER DOWN for Notice to hirers. Do not use that.

Change 'registered keeper' to 'hirer' and do not name the driver.  Do the appeal in the name of your Ltd company.  Add this extra paragraph instead of the one about PDT machines (delete that):

We have full authority to appeal this PCN and we are the hirer company as you can see from the attached communication from the lease firm who have also acknowledged that we are appealing these (not them). If you need to send our company a Notice to Hirer for each PCN please do that now, but we would also like a POPLA Code to enable us to proceed with the appeals.  We have a season ticket direct debit from our business account as we are regular company users of the car park and valued customers of yours, we hope.  For some reason unknown to us, NCP has (arbitrarily and without notice) stopped the direct debit and we require an explanation for this, in your response.

Attach to each a a copy if the letter/email from the hire firm that gives you authority to appeal and the fact they have acknowledged that you can appeal these.

mrpogue

Thank you  will give it a go and report back 

mrpogue

@Coupon-mad Do I not need to include the out of time notices? I note that the blue template and the above clause doesnt mention that- include two reasons why I am appealing - that we have have a season ticket and that they have not sent the notices within the right timescales so a double whammy.

mrpogue

Just also to note, they have provided pictures of husbands company vehicle registration plate allegedly on their camera. I was thinking of sending the below- would this work? Do I want them to send me a notice to hirer?

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA 2012) requires National Car Park Limited (NCP Ltd.) to, but not limited to, deliver the Notice to Keeper within the relevant period of fourteen days, as prescribed by Section 9(4) of the aforementioned Act. As NCP Ltd. have failed to meet that requirement liability cannot be transferred to myself, as Registered Keeper. Therefore there is no legal requirement for me to name the driver at the time of the alleged incident and I shall not be doing so. Obviously a Ltd company cannot be the driver of a vehicle.

We have full authority to appeal this PCN and we are the hirer company as you can see from the attached communication from the lease firm who have also acknowledged that we are appealing these (not them). If you need to send our company a Notice to Hirer for each PCN please do that now, but we would also like a POPLA Code to enable us to proceed with the appeals.  We have a season ticket direct debit from our business account as we are regular company users of the car park and valued customers of yours, we hope.  For some reason unknown to us, NCP has (arbitrarily and without notice) stopped the direct debit and we require an explanation for this, in your response.

mrpogue

minor change made. 

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the hirer of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA 2012) requires National Car Park Limited (NCP Ltd.) to, but not limited to, deliver the Notice to Keeper within the relevant period of fourteen days, as prescribed by Section 9(4) of the aforementioned Act. As NCP Ltd. have failed to meet that requirement liability cannot be transferred to myself, as Registered Hirer. Therefore there is no legal requirement for me to name the driver at the time of the alleged incident and I shall not be doing so. Obviously a Ltd company cannot be the driver of a vehicle.

We have full authority to appeal this PCN and we are the hirer company as you can see from the attached communication from the lease firm who have also acknowledged that we are appealing these (not them). If you need to send our company a Notice to Hirer for each PCN please do that now, but we would also like a POPLA Code to enable us to proceed with the appeals.  We have a season ticket direct debit from our business account as we are regular company users of the car park and valued customers of yours, we hope.  For some reason unknown to us, NCP has (arbitrarily and without notice) stopped the direct debit and we require an explanation for this, in your response.

1505grandad

In the first paras should "me", "myself", "I"  be "the company"?