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Old debts prior to bankruptcy made new

Hi all.
Bit of background...when my Dad passed away it was found in his Will (made in 2007) that I, but not my 2 brothers, should repay any money out of my inheritance (a third of his half of the house). My youngest brother is an accountant and is executor for my Dad's Will as well as my Mum's and is financial LPA should my Mum be deemed unfit (which he's been pushing for since my Dad died).
I declared bankruptcy a month before my Dad passed away in 09/20. The OR has stated I didn't receive an inheritance from my Dad and lays no claim to it.
My illustrious brother has now got my parents financial records going back 40 years and is going through them with a fine toothed comb in the hope that he can concoct an unproven amount. He's already attributed every cash withdrawal my Mum's made as being given to me. It's a joke. Funny what money does to people, even those that come from the same womb. He lost a £900K house in his divorce so is trying to grab back as much as possible by any means possible from wherever possible. She has £60K of investments which he'll have control over as LPA. I believe they should be cashed in to pay for her care.
I've never received anything in the past stating I should pay any money back, probably because my parents have never asked for my brother's to pay any back.
He's now saying I have to pay this debt which isn't a debt when my Mum passes away. But I went bankrupt on 05/03/2020 so all my debts, known or not/dreamed up, don't exist anymore.
How could I put a debt on my bankruptcy if I didn't know it existed?
Can he do this?
Thanks in advance
Recovering bankrupt

Comments

  • Keep_pedalling
    Keep_pedalling Posts: 19,295 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Debts cannot be inherited. Have you spoken to your mother about this?
  • molerat
    molerat Posts: 33,514 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    If you forget to list a debt in your bankruptcy application, don’t worry. The debt will still be included in your bankruptcy.

    So tell him go .................



  • sourcrates
    sourcrates Posts: 30,615 Ambassador
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts I've been Money Tipped! Name Dropper
    Bankruptcy is an all encompassing process, it includes all your debt, whether known about or not.

    However certain debts are not included, these are known as "non provable debts" and include 
    • Child maintenance arrears, if the arrangement was set by the CSA or Child Maintenance Service
    • Criminal fines, compensation orders and victim surcharges from a magistrates’ court or crown court
    • Debts you take out after the date of your bankruptcy order
    • Debts taken out fraudulently, for example benefit fraud
    • Mortgages and other debts secured against your home, if you want to keep the house
    Your Brother can say what he likes, the fact remains liability for all of your debts ended upon your dis-charge from bankruptcy.

    His only potential recourse would be through the courts, and if such a claim were made, you have a 100% defence that all your debts vest in your bankruptcy, best to keep evidence for a while yet, just in case.
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter
  • Brie
    Brie Posts: 13,475 Ambassador
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    I know very little about bankruptcy but Sourcrates does so I believe what he says.

    But - your father's will states you shouldn't get the full share that your brothers get.  Presumably this is because you borrow/were given money by your father/parents.  I get that.  My mom's will says similar, not for me but my brothers.  The difference is that my brothers are fully aware of this and mom's not dead.  So it's something we all know.  I presume you didn't and therefore the bit about bankruptcy would apply.  Why your dad would focus on what you had borrowed/been given and not what your brothers received could be a point for debate should it get that far.

    But was the house actually left to the 3 of you?  Or to your mom??  In which case it's your mom's will that matters, not your dad's.  If it was left to the 3 of you and you didn't get a full share then the debt has been paid.  At least that's what I believe from what you have said.  
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on Debt Free Wannabe and Old Style Money Saving boards.  If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.

    "Never retract, never explain, never apologise; get things done and let them howl.”  Nellie McClung
  • dave3dtg
    dave3dtg Posts: 56 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Debts cannot be inherited. Have you spoken to your mother about this?
    Yes I have. She says whatever has been given over the years was gifted and that her new Will contains nothing that reduces my third share of her half or her investments. Think I might need a solicitor who specialises in bankruptcy, inheritance/Wills and property lol
    Recovering bankrupt
  • dave3dtg
    dave3dtg Posts: 56 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    molerat said:
    If you forget to list a debt in your bankruptcy application, don’t worry. The debt will still be included in your bankruptcy.

    So tell him go .................



    When my Mum passes I will be trust me. Have nothing to do with them now, due to something else happening, apart from discussing my Mum's needs. But anything I say gets disregarded. Thanks for the link.
    Recovering bankrupt
  • dave3dtg
    dave3dtg Posts: 56 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Bankruptcy is an all encompassing process, it includes all your debt, whether known about or not.

    However certain debts are not included, these are known as "non provable debts" and include 
    • Child maintenance arrears, if the arrangement was set by the CSA or Child Maintenance Service
    • Criminal fines, compensation orders and victim surcharges from a magistrates’ court or crown court
    • Debts you take out after the date of your bankruptcy order
    • Debts taken out fraudulently, for example benefit fraud
    • Mortgages and other debts secured against your home, if you want to keep the house
    Your Brother can say what he likes, the fact remains liability for all of your debts ended upon your dis-charge from bankruptcy.

    His only potential recourse would be through the courts, and if such a claim were made, you have a 100% defence that all your debts vest in your bankruptcy, best to keep evidence for a while yet, just in case.
    Thought this would be case. I've got none of those listed. Just needed to get it confirmed by the expert's here. Also makes for a good screenshot to send.
    Recovering bankrupt
  • dave3dtg
    dave3dtg Posts: 56 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Brie said:
    I know very little about bankruptcy but Sourcrates does so I believe what he says.

    But - your father's will states you shouldn't get the full share that your brothers get.  Presumably this is because you borrow/were given money by your father/parents.  I get that.  My mom's will says similar, not for me but my brothers.  The difference is that my brothers are fully aware of this and mom's not dead.  So it's something we all know.  I presume you didn't and therefore the bit about bankruptcy would apply.  Why your dad would focus on what you had borrowed/been given and not what your brothers received could be a point for debate should it get that far.

    But was the house actually left to the 3 of you?  Or to your mom??  In which case it's your mom's will that matters, not your dad's.  If it was left to the 3 of you and you didn't get a full share then the debt has been paid.  At least that's what I believe from what you have said.  
    You're correct, I didn't have a clue, none of us did...even my Mum.
    His Will states that I should pay back into his estate any monies had out of my third of his half of house. I believe this creates a debt, because I have to pay back, suggesting that unbeknown to me I borrowed money from them. So I have a debt that is an accumulation of 40 years (37 prior to my bankruptcy) of an as yet unknown amount/s. If I had known and also known how much then I would've listed it on my bankruptcy.
    Like your Mum, mine is still with us and she just wants everything split 3 ways. My brothers have both had plenty over the years.
    My parents were TIC (Tenants In Common) (50/50) and the house has a Form A restriction on it. My Dad gave my Mum a life interest in his beneficial half...which basically means the beneficial interest (half the capital) cannot be sold to anyone. The beneficial interest that my brothers and I have is put on hold (Trust) until my Mum no longer requires it. They were both legal owners of the property and with his passing his legal title ownership (different from beneficial interest) automatically passed to my Mum. A consequence of this is that probate wasn't required to put the whole lagal title into my Mum's name. My Dad's Will states that my brothers and should be TIC on the legal title with our Mum (the law allows for 4 people, not necessarily related) to be TIC. This hasn't been done, so my brother has neglected his duties as executor. If it was then we wouldn't need probate when my mum passes, we would automatically become legal owners and because each of their beneficial interest won't go over the probate threshold. There, try getting your head round that...took me a while lol
    Recovering bankrupt
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