Updated after seeing IFA before I drawdown (L&G pension)? & SJP keen to combine

dunstonh

 I spoke to L&G and they were pretty useless. 

Remember that the provider is very limited in what they can say.  They cannot give advice or opinion.

obviously there are thousands of choices but surely there must be a top 5 providers for straightforward investment of a pension worth £200k. 

No there is not.    Its like buying any product.    What is best for one person isnt best for another.    Tell me what the best 5 cars are (for example)?   Or the best 5 TVs?

And realistically, 200k is high enough to get some good options hat someone with £20k would not be able to get.

DeadlyD

dunstonh said:

 I spoke to L&G and they were pretty useless. 

Remember that the provider is very limited in what they can say.  They cannot give advice or opinion.

obviously there are thousands of choices but surely there must be a top 5 providers for straightforward investment of a pension worth £200k. 

No there is not.    Its like buying any product.    What is best for one person isnt best for another.    Tell me what the best 5 cars are (for example)?   Or the best 5 TVs?

And realistically, 200k is high enough to get some good options hat someone with £20k would not be able to get.

I like the analogy! reading through the articles that @xylophone kindly provided I am becoming more educated. 
A flexible drawdown pension that is managed - a SIPP,  the Vanguard article is informative . But rather than engage with an IFA (I'm concerned given my experience with the SJP consultant and ) can a provider manage as well? such as H&L? 
That's what I am ideally looking for.

LHW99

DeadlyD said:

dunstonh said:

 I spoke to L&G and they were pretty useless. 

Remember that the provider is very limited in what they can say.  They cannot give advice or opinion.

obviously there are thousands of choices but surely there must be a top 5 providers for straightforward investment of a pension worth £200k. 

No there is not.    Its like buying any product.    What is best for one person isnt best for another.    Tell me what the best 5 cars are (for example)?   Or the best 5 TVs?

And realistically, 200k is high enough to get some good options hat someone with £20k would not be able to get.

I like the analogy! reading through the articles that @xylophone kindly provided I am becoming more educated. 
A flexible drawdown pension that is managed - a SIPP,  the Vanguard article is informative . But rather than engage with an IFA (I'm concerned given my experience with the SJP consultant and ) can a provider manage as well? such as H&L? 
That's what I am ideally looking for.

If you chose HL, you would need to choose one or more funds. You could choose a Vanguard fund like the life strategy 60 or 80, or a similar fund from another fund manager, such as Blackrock or HSBC. You could look at it every year or so and decide if you were still happy with it.

HL would probably be expensive for £200k, but there are cheaper platforms, such as AJ Bell or II.

None of the platforms would do any "managing", that is the job of the fund manager (Vanguard etc).

Your annual review and decision to stick or twist would be another level / type of management.

I believe studies have suggested that the most successful DIY investors are deceased - they don't do many fund changes!

dunstonh

A flexible drawdown pension that is managed - a SIPP,  the Vanguard article is informative . But rather than engage with an IFA (I'm concerned given my experience with the SJP consultant and ) can a provider manage as well? such as H&L? 

SJP are not IFAs.  So, comparing them with an IFA isn't really fair.   And a provider that provides management advice/solutions is actually closer to SJP. i.e... HL is restricted just as SJP are.

That's what I am ideally looking for.

If you want someone to tell you what to do then that is an IFA.   If you want to select simple investments that you can invest and forget, then that is you picking a fund that does that.  If you want a sales rep to sell you their own product and funds then that is something you should avoid.

DeadlyD

dunstonh said:

A flexible drawdown pension that is managed - a SIPP,  the Vanguard article is informative . But rather than engage with an IFA (I'm concerned given my experience with the SJP consultant and ) can a provider manage as well? such as H&L? 

SJP are not IFAs.  So, comparing them with an IFA isn't really fair.   And a provider that provides management advice/solutions is actually closer to SJP. i.e... HL is restricted just as SJP are.

That's what I am ideally looking for.

If you want someone to tell you what to do then that is an IFA.   If you want to select simple investments that you can invest and forget, then that is you picking a fund that does that.  If you want a sales rep to sell you their own product and funds then that is something you should avoid.

Right. So for the uninformed this is very helpful. My understanding is:-

Pension providers eg L&G don’t provide advice. Unless they have a fund management team. 
Some providers eg SJP & H&L provide sales reps AKA Financial Advisors. 

Funds such as Vanguard, Fidelity can be managed as a DIY option. 

I have no desire to manage my own funds so I’m looking for a reputable IFA. However, my first encounter with a “Financial Advisor” was SJP who were economical with the truth leading me astray so I am suspicious of trusting an IFA. 

No wonder the sectors got a bad rep. finding out this information is not easy and then you have to trust an IFA which is basically finding one from a directory. 

Appreciate your help! 

DeadlyD

DeadlyD said:

xylophone said:

You might try here for an Independent  Financial Adviser.

https://adviserbook.co.uk/

Tick "confirmed independent" and any other specialism required when the menu comes up.

Or you could DIY.

https://moneytothemasses.com/saving-for-your-future/pensions/the-best-cheapest-sipps-low-cost-diy-pensions


You might find these links of interest.


https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investing-explained/flexible-income


https://monevator.com/decumulation-a-real-life-plan/


https://monevator.com/dynamic-asset-allocation-and-withdrawal-in-retirement/

https://www.unbiased.co.uk/discover/pensions-retirement/planning-for-retirement/how-to-invest-during-retirement-to-protect-your-pension-pot

thanks @xylophone I will have a read through tomorrow! Mainly interested in finding a provider with funds for a SIPP that has a good ( at least market expectations) % return. 

Thank you @xylophone again for the article and helping through this minefield that is financial pension planning! I have now found a local IFA and will advise you of the outcome shortly! 

DeadlyD

I have taken your advice @dunstonh and @xylophone. I understand the differences between providers, fund management, DIY and engaging an IFA, the latter which I was reticent to do due to my difficult experiences in engaging a Financial expert to transfer my DB pension and with SJP. I've now found a local independent and will report back! 
Thanks all on this engaging platform - invaluable financial expertise. 
DeadlyD

ian16527

I had L&G PMC multi asset funds in my works pension. They were usually called accelerated growth etc.
I self selected as they were poor performers, lot of UK bias.
Can you not download the latest fact sheet and compare the performance to say VG LS80 or LS60 for example. This would give you an idea of what the differences are in performance

DeadlyD

DeadlyD said:

I have taken your advice @dunstonh and @xylophone. I understand the differences between providers, fund management, DIY and engaging an IFA, the latter which I was reticent to do due to my difficult experiences in engaging a Financial expert to transfer my DB pension and with SJP. I've now found a local independent and will report back! 
Thanks all on this engaging platform - invaluable financial expertise. 
DeadlyD

Update 
@dunstonh @xylophone and Forumites! 

IFA found via unbiased aligned to Flying Colours Limited (practices under / acts as a representative of) 

IFA Recommendation
Combine L&G unmanaged & SJP managed(latter has 1.4% penalty I am in yr3 of a 5yr agreement) ongoing charges .37% & 1.72% respectively
Fund - Aviva Vanguard 80 

IFA charges
Transfer charge for L&G - 1.5% 
Ongoing management - .75%
No transfer on SJP see above penalty 
Ongoing management 1% 

My strategy for retirement this year and the following 
- Use the tax free allowance = £12,750
- Tax free pension £4,190 

Option to withdraw lump sums at anytime eg £20k of the tax free amount 

My questions are;- 
- Is this a sensible recommendation? What other considerations are there?  IFA charges - any comments? 

Appreciated,
DeadlyD

 

gm0

The L&G multi-asset 3 fund is meant to deliver lower volatility than pure equities and be a "slow and steady" fund. 
It provides access to a mix of FI assets alongside equities.  (NTW3).

"To provide long-term investment growth through exposure to a diversified range of asset
classes. The diversified nature of the Fund means that the Fund is expected to have less
exposure than an equity-only fund to adverse equity market conditions. However, the Fund
may perform less strongly than an equity-only fund in benign or positive market conditions."

As it goes it delivered an unwelcome surprise last year with bond capital values unwinding with interest rates rising rapidly alongside for a time an equity drop (albeit then an equity recovery).   

As did all multi-assets with lower equities and a chunk of medium duration corporate and government bonds.  And portfolios where the bond funds were broken out separately but still present.

If you graph it on trustnet against Vanguard VLS 40 it should perform "similarly" because that is the kind of animal that it is.  There are type of credit and home market and FX risk differences.  And they are not the same - but to a first approximation both are 40% equities multi-asset funds

I set up some portfolios early last year and am familiar with this fund.

Today the Multi-Asset 3 is still down circa 5% from Feb 2022. 
The pure global developed equities (ex UK) bought the same day is now up 7% and the UK fund is up 2%.  
Whatever that tells us.

Yes it has a higher UK bias.  And the bonds content last year was a difference. 
In a particular and unusual period.  The bond correction unwinds prior gains from low interest rates and QE period.
The nature of the bond mixtures and currency risks are different from funds with lower UK mixtures.

The version I have access to is quite cheap for a multi-asset 0.13% for what it is.  Many basic multi-asset passives are 0.2x% and up.

It isn't MEANT to perform like a passive "all equities" indexer.  And it doesn't.

The two relevant questions are - is it a sensible mixture for you - age, risk appetite, goals - as a one and done (less likely).  Or as a cheap (lower volatility) building block in a bigger portfolio.  And if it is, which of the similar funds that could provide that function would be sensible.

Data point

L&G PMC Multi-asset 3 - cumulative 15.8% over 5 years
2022 -7.10
2021 12.65
2020 1.40
2019 7.91

Vanguard LS 40 - cumulative 10.2% over 5 years.
2022 -13.6
2021 5.7
2020 7.7
2019 12.4
2018 -2.3
So it's a "bad fund".  No it's not.  It's what it is. Slightly spicier than VLS40.  Less spicy than VLS60.  Different mix of credit stuff.  Different UK vs World equities performance risk and Currency FX risk mix due to UK gilts and UK equity mixtures being richer.