Vehicle purchased in good faith that had outstanding finance

dianelesley

Hello everyone, at my wits end here. My son paid by bank transfer for a van to a private seller. Two months later a finance company called Moneybarn sent a letter stating that the van was still on finance and that the bailiffs would be taking it away. (I know, we had no idea there was a site you could access to find out if a vehicle still had finance owing on it). Moneybarn aren't budging, even though we have sent a solicitor's letter to them. They won't tell me if they have contacted the original person who took out the finance, even though the Citizen's Advice Bureau state they should try to get the money from them first. I've put in a complaint to the finance company and told them we will go to the financial ombudsman but need a final response letter to do so.  Does anyone know how we stand with the bailiffs trying to collect the vehicle?

Fighter1986

I'm afraid the car wasn't ever owned by either your son or the person who sold it to him.

Moneybarn have done nothing wrong.

The person who sold your son the van however has misrepresented the van as his own, when legally speaking it remained the property of Moneybarn until he'd finished paying off his finance.

It wasn't his to sell. 

It's unlikely you'll get any redress for this, but you can report the seller to the police, as he has committed a criminal offence, and you can try to sue him, but if he has no money then you'll get no money.

A very harsh lesson in caveat emptor, but make sure to report the seller to the police and action fraud. 

dianelesley

Thank you so much for bothering to reply Fighter1986. I think I probably guessed this would be the case.

CliveOfIndia

It's sometimes not quite as clear-cut as that.  Yes, the car is owned by the finance company, and the seller had no right to sell it.

But have a read through this advice from CAB - it might be of some help: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/the-car-you-bought-is-still-on-hire-purchase/

And: https://www.whatcar.com/advice/buying/what-happens-if-i-buy-a-car-with-outstanding-finance/n18536

Fighter1986

CliveOfIndia said:

It's sometimes not quite as clear-cut as that.  Yes, the car is owned by the finance company, and the seller had no right to sell it.

But have a read through this advice from CAB - it might be of some help: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/the-car-you-bought-is-still-on-hire-purchase/

And: https://www.whatcar.com/advice/buying/what-happens-if-i-buy-a-car-with-outstanding-finance/n18536

Well colour me corrected, thanks Clive, didn't know that. A glimmer of hope for the OP!

CliveOfIndia

Fighter1986 said:

CliveOfIndia said:

It's sometimes not quite as clear-cut as that.  Yes, the car is owned by the finance company, and the seller had no right to sell it.

But have a read through this advice from CAB - it might be of some help: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/the-car-you-bought-is-still-on-hire-purchase/

And: https://www.whatcar.com/advice/buying/what-happens-if-i-buy-a-car-with-outstanding-finance/n18536

Well colour me corrected, thanks Clive, didn't know that. A glimmer of hope for the OP!

No problem.  Yes, a glimmer of hope for the OP.

I'm not in any way suggesting that the OP will definitely get to keep the car, but there are situations where automatic repossession by the finance company is not a guaranteed outcome.

OP, a word with your local CAB might be beneficial.

Herzlos

Will Moneybarn tell you how much is owed on the van, since the contract isn't actually with you?

I'm just wondering if it's cheaper to pay it off and get good title to the van than have it repossessed. Given the seem to deal with sub-prime lendings it's not likely but you may get lucky and find out that the balance is pretty small.

Have you spoken to the original seller? Done any HPI check?

DullGreyGuy

You say you have paid for a solicitor to be involved... why are you posting on a public forum for advice from strangers that you cannot validate their knowledge when you've paid for a qualified lawyer who has PI insurance should they give you wrong advice?

FreeBear

Lock the car up in a garage so that bailiffs can't clamp or tow the car away. Once you have secured the vehicle in a safe place, then you can argue the toss with MoneyBarn.

sourcrates

dianelesley said:

Does anyone know how we stand with the bailiffs trying to collect the vehicle?

Well they may not be bailiffs for a start.

You can`t just engage a bailiff, and rock up at someone`s home to repossess a car.
The finance company first have to take legal action against the original debtor, and obtain a judgement against them.

Only then can a bailiff be engaged, however, they can only attend the address given for the debtor, and they must give 7 days notice of attendance, as the original debtor has sold the car to you, the finance company must again go back to court and update the address for service, issue you with a 7 day notice of attendance, only then can they come for the car.

They have to follow civil procedure rules, so you will likely need to find somewhere to hide the vehicle, until this mess is sorted out, bailiffs cannot force entry to private property.

If someone just turns up out of the blue, its more likely to be an employee of Moneybarn rather than a bailiff.

bris

"Innocent purchaser" is a defence to keep the car

There are a couple of points to take into consideration as to the term innocent purchaser.

Was the car advertised for sale to anyone

Did you know the seller

Was it sold for fair market value.

 In other words did you buy it off a mate on the cheap

 To good to be true is also a thing that could go against you

It will be investigated but if none of the above apply then you are ok.