Car finance for 3rd party

Wonka_2

krishcanag7 said:

From the comments so far...it seems to me BMW are clearly broken the code themselves to approve this deal when both person A and person B discussed it with the salesman....who has left BMW

Why not tell the whole story rather than talking in riddles ?

Are you person A or person B ?

And assuming you're B and have had your credit rating trashed you're unlikely to put someone else on the hook for decisions you made unless, as @MrFrugalFever says, you can prove the dealer was aware you were applying on someone else's behalf. If they were this leaves you both on the hook but you'd also have to prove that the agreement you signed showed this - and given the standardisation of documents I can't see this happening 

Ryan_Holden

krishcanag7 said:

From the comments so far...it seems to me BMW are clearly broken the code themselves to approve this deal when both person A and person B discussed it with the salesman....who has left BMW

Are you reading different comments to the rest of us? 

I feel like you're not asking for advice, but more that you've decided what you think is right and you're looking for posts you can interpret as agreeing with you.

Person B fronted for person A. Even if the BMW salesman said it was OK, it's not his decision to make.

Now the credit company are cross with person B and person B, a grown up individual with agency and intelligence, is responsible for the repercussions.

Person B frankly was a bit daft.

krishcanag7

Grumpy_chap said:

krishcanag7 said:

From what you are saying, BMW should be liable for damages to person B ?

No.
How would you get to that conclusion?
Person B defrauded BMW / the finance company and somehow you want BMW to be liable.

My point is BMW salesmen agreed to this setup, he was part of the arrangement. Nothing was hidden from the salesmen.

martinbainbridge1975

I think i have previously read somewhere that sub leasing is not permitted 

Grumpy_chap

krishcanag7 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

krishcanag7 said:

From what you are saying, BMW should be liable for damages to person B ?

No.
How would you get to that conclusion?
Person B defrauded BMW / the finance company and somehow you want BMW to be liable.

My point is BMW salesmen agreed to this setup, he was part of the arrangement. Nothing was hidden from the salesmen.

I suspect the BMW Salesman did not say what you recall him as saying.  It is not his gift to say that fronting would be OK.
As the following article explains, fronting is illegal:
https://www.creditplus.co.uk/car-finance-glossary/fronting/#:~:text=In car finance terms, fronting,Agreement on behalf of another.

From what has been said so far, both A & B have been foolish (or worse) in this case and if they can escape with returning the car, settling any finance costs and both credit histories trashed then they have got off lightly.  From what has been said so far, it does not seem sensible for A or B to pursue any further attempt at redress as that could lead to prosecution.

You may have asked the BMW Salesman a slightly different question and received a response to say that would be OK.

If the situation is not as explained so far in the thread, then, if you provide the full information on how A & B are linked and exactly what could not be done and what was wanted to be done, people may be able to provide further information that assists.  It is difficult to do this with the drip-feed that is currently the case.

Ryan_Holden

Grumpy_chap said:

I suspect the BMW Salesman did not say what you recall him as saying.  It is not his gift to say that fronting would be

It is difficult to do this with the drip-feed that is currently the case.

Because I think Person B has already decided that they want BMW to be in the wrong and they're looking for someone to back them up rather than give them the reality of the situation.

Herzlos

In this case it definitely sounds like fronting, and if caught out they'd be best just owning up, returning the car and settling the finance.


However, there's no reason that someone who doesn't drive can't own and be the registered keeper of a car, or for someone else to take out car insurance to use the car that they don't own. I doubt any finance tied to the car would be happy about that setup though, but if one was to pay cash for it, it wouldn't be an issue.

MrFrugalFever

Herzlos said:

In this case it definitely sounds like fronting, and if caught out they'd be best just owning up, returning the car and settling the finance.


However, there's no reason that someone who doesn't drive can't own and be the registered keeper of a car, or for someone else to take out car insurance to use the car that they don't own. I doubt any finance tied to the car would be happy about that setup though, but if one was to pay cash for it, it wouldn't be an issue.

The entire issue here is that Person A has been rejected by a finance company when applying to obtain credit, Person B has proceeded to apply on behalf of Person A. Person A would have been rejected for good reason and as such is unlikely to maintain consistent payments. The finance company own the car, legally, regardless of who is on the V5c document. The insurance company couldn’t care less about who owns it as long as all the info supplied by the insuring party was true and correct.

I would suggest that selling the car, settling the finance and walking away ASAP is going to be the lesser of the two evils. Alphera are well within their rights to formally terminate the agreement with Person B at any time and will either demand payment in full within a timeframe or apply for asset collection. A CIFAS marker could be placed on Person B’s file and at worst criminal proceedings undertaken.

I think in the main if you’re not good for credit, just accept it and find a more appropriate solution such as a much cheaper car or debt management solution.

Edi81

I worked for a car finance company - it was 17 years ago and things have likely changed. 

This was a fairly common occurance and believe me the salesperson knew about most of the time!

Nebulous2

Grumpy_chap said:

krishcanag7 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

krishcanag7 said:

From what you are saying, BMW should be liable for damages to person B ?

No.
How would you get to that conclusion?
Person B defrauded BMW / the finance company and somehow you want BMW to be liable.

My point is BMW salesmen agreed to this setup, he was part of the arrangement. Nothing was hidden from the salesmen.

I suspect the BMW Salesman did not say what you recall him as saying.  It is not his gift to say that fronting would be OK.
As the following article explains, fronting is illegal:
https://www.creditplus.co.uk/car-finance-glossary/fronting/#:~:text=In car finance terms, fronting,Agreement on behalf of another.

From what has been said so far, both A & B have been foolish (or worse) in this case and if they can escape with returning the car, settling any finance costs and both credit histories trashed then they have got off lightly.  From what has been said so far, it does not seem sensible for A or B to pursue any further attempt at redress as that could lead to prosecution.

You may have asked the BMW Salesman a slightly different question and received a response to say that would be OK.

If the situation is not as explained so far in the thread, then, if you provide the full information on how A & B are linked and exactly what could not be done and what was wanted to be done, people may be able to provide further information that assists.  It is difficult to do this with the drip-feed that is currently the case.

I'm struggling to get my head around this - particularly the bit in that link at the bottom of example 2 about couples. It is a very common scenario that a couple will have a high earner, possibly with a company car, and a very low or non-earner running a second or family car. How do they finance that? 

About 5 years ago we set out to buy a second car. It was to be my wife's car, replacing an existing one in her name. We were intending paying for it, but the salesman said we would get a dealer contribution if we took finance, and if we kept the finance for 3 months we would get an additional 1 year warranty. The finance had to go in my name as I was the main / only earner. The V5 arrived by post in my name. I complained to the dealer, the trade-in belonged to my wife and despite the finance being in my name, the car was going to be her car. They apologised, said they had made a mistake, gave us a bunch of flowers, and we moved on. 3 months later we paid the finance off. 

I'm now realising they did that deliberately. Rather than explain the legal issues, and in their mind jeopardise a sale, they went along with us and did what they liked, pretending it was a mistake.