When do I find out the salary?

united4ever

Oh gosh, might be a struggle on 26k. I didn't raise the salary question but perhaps I should. My thinking is that you make sure you get the job offer first and wait for them to raise the salary. I even wondered if this was just a first interview because it was online but on closing they said 'we will probably let you know tomorrow' and they did. 

Have some other irons in the fire and about 4 to 6 weeks before start date so will keep looking anyway. 

united4ever

By the way, if I do push back, who do I push? HR obviously but do I copy in the department manager who led the interview? I would probably be working with the department manager so don't want to get off to a bad start with him (not that it should be) but being assertive with HR only sounds easier.

Own_Worst_Enermy

BikingBud said:

Why do people not include this as a key part of the interview?

At that stage in the process where they ask if you have any questions?


 

Because they are lead to lead to believe it’s rude as ask about salary in an interview, been this way for many years on MSE alone! Lol!! 

I have never asked about salary as per here during recruitment, indeed last job I successfully got matched a different industry salary but it was not through MSE or trying and when I approached an old boss end of last year he was like in the same customer service era I can’t pay what you are use too. 

TELLIT01

Within the CS I'm not sure that HR would have any say over the starting salary either.  I suspect a starting salary will have been determined before the interview process started and it's likely to be a 'take it or leave it' decision for the applicant, unless it's a fairly senior post.

united4ever

TELLIT01 said:

Within the CS I'm not sure that HR would have any say over the starting salary either.  I suspect a starting salary will have been determined before the interview process started and it's likely to be a 'take it or leave it' decision for the applicant, unless it's a fairly senior post.

Really? Why do they have a range (7 or 8k) on the advert? Probably other posters may be right, every new starter starts at the bottom and can get to the top only after many many years.

strawb_shortcake

@united4ever higher starting pay isn't unheard of, but also isnt all that common either. But; as it typically only applies to external applicants it doesn't tend to go down too well with existing employees. 

We had an applicant recently that requested a higher pay, and our team which is headed by a Senior civil servant had no say to what their pay could be, where it went beyond them I have no idea. 

The scale is usually the existing min-max for that grade. 

BikingBud

Just to try and develop this a little, you have been working in an organisation where your progression has now set you on step 5, say 31K. Why would you play snakes and ladders to go elsewhere for 26K.

If they provide a range I would expect the salary to be negotiated within that range and consider if it is worth my time applying.

If it says starting salary then I would probably skip that role as it would be clear they are only interested in getting a bum on the seat and not valuing my skills.

But this decision would need to be based on openness, clarity and realism. 

BikingBud

united4ever said:

Had an interview at a local authority. Advert stated salary 26k to 33k

No mention of salary at interview. Offered the job by phone but still no mention of salary. The man said HR would be in contact me with contract.

Obviously I want to be at the top of the range but is that uncommon for a new starter? I have long experience in the field and skills. The manager who called me today stated this was the reason for the job offer.

So I expect to receive a contract in the post/email from HR with a salary. Then, can I push back , if it is not top end of range and point to my skills/experience etc to ask for it to be increased. Does anyone know how this would play out at a Local Authority? Any tips welcome. I do need a job also so I wouldn't want to get the offer retracted by being too strong but I can see there may be a need to be assertive otherwise it could take many years to climb up to the top of the salary range.

And they should expect to pay appropriately for that!

BikingBud

annabanana82 said:

@united4ever higher starting pay isn't unheard of, but also isnt all that common either. But; as it typically only applies to external applicants it doesn't tend to go down too well with existing employees. 

We had an applicant recently that requested a higher pay, and our team which is headed by a Senior civil servant had no say to what their pay could be, where it went beyond them I have no idea. 

The scale is usually the existing min-max for that grade. 

How do you know this, where is the confidentiality in the process?

Happy with graded pay scales, (yes they should be published but knowing where individuals are should not be shared) as this is pitched to reflect the overall job responsibilities but if an external applicant with extensive experience of the systems and processes involved can come in and perform at the top end of the grade without supervision, can bring about new thinking and improve the efficiency of the organisation then why not pay the higher scale step?

Existing employees should also think about the value they add not just what they take. If they add value more then, what about accelerated progression and consider if the overall offer, still works for them. I understand that many people stay within LG/CS for the long term and the pension benefits but they must own their own future and not witter that others may be getting "preferential" treatment. 

We shouldn't shy away from discussing pay, it is one of those areas where the employer can practically see your potential for difficult discussions and objectivity in management of conflict, traits that they wish to exploit.

Know your worth.

united4ever

Right, had a call from the managers manager last week. Stated that the salary hadn't been discussed. He was going to speak to HR but agreed to put me into the higher job grade and indicated normally I would enter at the bottom of that grade (circa 30k). He would however try to see if he could get any higher. Today I got the below email (paraphrased it) 

"I have been in touch with our HR department to address the pay question. I have attached the latest pay scales, and it turns out that the scales we discussed previously were accurate and are still in use until the new pay deal is agreed upon for this year. While I don't have specific information on when the new pay deal will be finalized, it is expected to include an increase.

As we discussed, Grade blah blah blah is where I would start placing you based on the provided pay scales. However, I understand that you mentioned it may not quite work for you. Therefore, I kindly request your advice on the scale points that would be suitable. Once I have your input, I will approach our Director for formal approval. Rest assured, as soon as I receive the Director's approval, I will send you the formal letter promptly.

I want to reiterate my willingness to discuss this matter further and my eagerness to resolve it as soon as possible, allowing us to proceed with the hiring process."

was thinking of something along the lines of:

After carefully reviewing the attached pay scales and considering our previous discussion, I wanted to emphasize my enthusiasm for the position. Given my extensive 15 years of experience in the blah blah blah field and my valuable skills, I believe it would be fair to aim for the top of the pay range.

On another note, I was wondering if we could explore the possibility of working from home for one or two days a week after a settling-in period. I understand the importance of being in the office to foster teamwork and collaboration, but having some flexibility to work remotely can greatly enhance productivity and contribute to a healthy work-life balance. If this option is feasible, I would be happy to meet you halfway and accept a salary at the midpoint of Grade blah blah blah, which amounts to £blah blah blah.

I'm open to further discussion and providing any additional information you may need to support my request. I truly believe that finding a mutually beneficial agreement, one that acknowledges both my experience and the Council's compensation structure, will set the stage for a strong and successful working relationship.

Thank you once again for your attention to this matter. I eagerly await your response and look forward to progressing with the hiring process.

I didn't raise the wfh question at interview but they did ask me if I have any requirements around caring for people so that was maybe the time to raise that but I said 'no'. I have all the equipment to wfh and on the interview at least 2 of the 3 interviewers were at home so it's clearly not unusual. 

Anyway, thoughts on my reply? Don't want to !!!!!! them off/have the offer withdrawn but I realise if I don't play hard ball now I could regret it for years.