Debt collectors chasing old debt

fatbelly

Doing a s77-79CCA request may or may not count as an acknowledgement of the debt. We're not aware of any court case where that was tested.

If you are disputing a debt as not being yours, then it's best not to do a CCA, as explained in the prove-it thread (2nd post)

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter

In your situation I'd assume that the default date/last payment date (whichever is later) remains the 'cause of action'.

Post for further advice if you get the standard pre-action letter with 30-day reply form.

hoverFrog1

Lowells have now responded with a 30 page letter including their data retention policy. I don't know why they've done this although I did say in my letter that they should remove my records from their systems. They've not sent their complaints procedure as I requested or the agreement requested under Sections 77 to 79 of the Consumer Credit Act. I've written out a letter telling them as much but I'm thinking I shouldn't send it and instead ignore them until such time as they comply with the CCA.

They've not asked for anything from me so there really is no reason for me to do anything, right?

fatbelly

I agree. The point of a formal s77-9 request is that they must comply with it!

Until they do, do nothing.

hoverFrog1

Three and a half months later Lowells have emailed me the evidence that the debt is valid. I guess I should probably work out some sort of offer with them now. Is there a good source of how much I should offer? I was thinking a pound and working up by a pound each time they reject it. The debt is for £2051.83.

No seriously, would they accept £500, do you think?

DjangoUnchained

what evidence have they emailed you? is it a proper CCA?

sourcrates

What form does this email take then ?

What have they sent you.

hoverFrog1

DjangoUnchained said:

what evidence have they emailed you? is it a proper CCA?

No, it's a timeline claiming that the bank sent it to me about 2 years ago. They may have. My records are a mess.

Are you saying that because the debt has been sold to Lowells that Lowells need to produce the CCA now, even if Halifax already have?

hoverFrog1

This is the text in the PDF that they emailed to me.

Responding to your query

We’ve investigated your query about the outstanding balance which relates to your former Hoist Finance UK-

Lloyds Banking Group PLC account.

Our findings

We’ve carefully considered all the information that you and Hoist Finance UK-Lloyds Banking Group PLC have

provided.

Our findings are outlined below:

• Your Lloyds Banking Group PLC account was opened on 03/11/2011.
• This account is in relation to your former Halifax (Credit Card) account.
• The last payment made towards this account was on 20/11/2018 for £22.14.
• Please be advised after reviewing the Hoist Finance UK notes for this account we can see that the account statement and agreement was sent to you on 11/01/2021.
• We can also confirm you raised a complaint on the account with Halifax. Please see attached a copy of the final response letter they sent to you on 13/12/2021.
• Your account defaulted on 22/12/2016.
  

Based on the information provided, we consider the balance to be valid and owing.

Next Steps

We’ve placed your account on hold for 30 days from the date of this letter. This is to allow you time to review the information we’ve provided and get back to us if we’ve missed anything or if you have any further questions. If you do not get back to us within this time, we will be in touch.

We look forward to hearing from you.

The attached letter from Halifax in 2021 has this relevant paragraph:

We’ve sent the information to Hoist

When a balance has been sold to a third party such as Hoist, we’ll always ask them to pass on the information to you. Our records show that we provided a Section 78 request to them on 11 September 2020 and statements from 5 December 2013 to 6 December 2016. They should have passed this information on to you. We also sent a copy of your agreement on 20 October 2010 along with the terms and conditions.

hoverFrog1

So I think this is what has happened:

I took out the Halifax credit card on 03/11/2011
I defaulted on the Halifax credit card on 20/11/2018, owing about £2k
Halifax sold the debt to Hoist on 11/01/2021
Halifax sent the CCA to Hoist on 13/12/2021
At some time Hoist sold the debt on to Lowells

If Lowells have the CCA why haven't they sent it to me? If they don't have it then the debt can't be enforced, right? Should I just keep ignoring them?

sourcrates

Lowell will not have any paperwork in regard to your debt, or any other debt they have ever purchased.

This is because all relevant paperwork always remains with the original creditor, it only passes through the hands of the purchaser when requested by the debtor.

It looks like Hoist may have sent you this already, so Lowell are using that as an excuse not to do the same.

If they wanted to take legal action, and you were to defend it, then they would need to back it up with evidence, if that was available a year ago, its likely Lowell would be able to do that.

The only question is will they bother.