Whats the worst that can happen?

Dakta

There's more to this, but in very basic terms I've recently been denied a pay review despite a good appraisal (it's an annual thing this time of year).

My manager was away at the time so I had this feedback from my managers manager, and the reason given was because of a grievance that nearly made me quit earlier in the year - the pot was distributed as they thought I was leaving and so I missed out just because of 'bad timing' and that they'd try and review me later in the year pending continued good performance.... basically the official stance is I'm good for the raise but due to the timing of me saying I wished to leave, the pot got distributed. Basically no offense, but it's just bad luck but you should have got it, and will next time. 

Just one problem, whilst I initially begrudgingly accepted this bad news - it occured to me one night that in a team meeting only a few days before I got this news, the same managers manager boasted about how much he was trying to get us and how negotiations with HR were going. Given my near leaving was months ago, those timelines don't make sense. 

Obvious conclusion is it's a bit of punishment for my greivance but I don't want to jump to conclusions, I also appreciate despite being here a long time pay reviews etc are almost certain discretionary. However I do want to know what the crack is so I queried with HR, and this has got back to my manager who has asked me what i want, I asked for the date of the decision on my review being made, however I've received an out and out refusal to put anything in writing and we must have a verbal meeting about it as things put in writing 'tend to be misinterpreted'.

In the end I caved in and said we could have a chat about it, but I've been told now they need a meeting with the higher ups and will get back to me. 

I think I'm very high risk of being 'managed out'. My question to you is, given this limited and appreciately highly summarised scenario, is it unreasonable request of me to want to know how, why, when my pay review was decided to be forfeit?

Presuming there's a fairly reasonable explanation for being cut out of the pay reviews this year I'd just expect it to be given? My managers manager had no problem explaining it (albeit it verbaly) the other day but asking for further info/clarification on contradictory points seems to be most unwelcome. 

Annisele

Depending on what your grievance was about, then if you're right in your assumption that the grievance is the reason for the lack of pay rise then you might have a valid claim for victimisation. But that is not easy to prove!

Your manager's sudden reluctance to put things in writing does make me think there might be something in your suspicions - but the "something" might just be that your manager has realised they forgot you and is trying to cover themselves.

I don't think your questions are unreasonable. But I also think that if I was in your shoes, I'd only be pushy with those questions if I thought it would be easy to get an equivalent job elsewhere (so I wouldn't be too stuffed if I did get managed out).

Are you a member of a union?

Dakta

I am not a member of a union BUT I will find alternative work easily - I've already had to do it a few times because of treatment from this manager, problem is whilst I am not particularly happy in my current team the other teams I work with are FANTASTIC and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else when I get to interoperate with them - and yes I will be making an attempt to moving teams as soon as the opportunity presents

But yeah, finding another role will be trivial, it's not really what I want, but since I've had a change in manager I've had a hell of a time - they are quite new, inexperienced but the mistakes they make can have impact, for example they've made admin errors that have cost me weeks of on-call which attracts a nice premium (I suspect this may not be an accident but again hard to prove, but it would have been easy to swap me with the guy who got a week extra a week later, instead they let the guy keep it and just said bad luck)

I just have a bad feeling because I've tried to make people aware of all the issues i've been having (which have impacted stress, mental health and lead to a diagnosis - even occupational health have said work issues need resolving for me to get back to a level)  and I think these peopple will try and throw me under the bus because the alternative is the managers manager admitting the new manager was a bad call.

I don't have anything against new manager btw, in fact I like to see people succeed  but I don't want it to be at a personal cost and so far the last year or so has been terrible - my initial greivance was about workloads as my immediate peers were letting me take an undue amount of work which led to stress, and whilst management agreed there was an issue after months nothing had been done and I got told off for asking for an update on things as I was getting absolutely burned out 3 months on after the initial report.  Just to put a scope on this the problem was so well known I was informally 'forbidden' from answering people asking for help or tasks for a 30 minute period after the task was raised 'to encourage others to not be used to relying on me'. This had little effect. 


There is something else as well - I've had to raise a subject access request because people on my team were able to quote private emails between me and my manager sorting various issues out - I asked if these had been shared and I was told I was a very open person and probably told other people and 'forgot I did it'. This was followed by a categoric denial that my emails were being shared and a request to not raise it again as it suggested the leads were not professional.  Problem is, when I say quote, I mean the people who received copies of my emails sent me screenshots of the forwarded emails so there's no ifs no buts or doubts -  I've sat on it because they dont want to get in trouble for telling me, and I actually wanted problems to die down not inflate issues and I thought sometimes let people (even managements) mistakes lie but that was before I realised they wanted to hit me financially. I'll try and bite my lip to being disliked or being a little bit prodded and poked but a financial impact needs a response. 

I have scoped the subject access request to hopefully include communuications relating to the pay review, so I am hoping all will be revealed either way unless the organisation can find reasonable grounds to block it.  

I am trying to keep an open mind, the SAR might reveal my manager fighting my corner to let me have a rise and HR over-riding it, but I think this is unlikely as I'm sure my manager would have empthasised what they did to try and protect me as it would make them look good if nothing else. 

Marcon

Dakta said:

I am not a member of a union BUT I will find alternative work easily - I've already had to do it a few times because of treatment from this manager, problem is whilst I am not particularly happy in my current team the other teams I work with are FANTASTIC and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else when I get to interoperate with them - and yes I will be making an attempt to moving teams as soon as the opportunity presents

But yeah, finding another role will be trivial, it's not really what I want, but since I've had a change in manager I've had a hell of a time - they are quite new, inexperienced but the mistakes they make can have impact, for example they've made admin errors that have cost me weeks of on-call which attracts a nice premium (I suspect this may not be an accident but again hard to prove, but it would have been easy to swap me with the guy who got a week extra a week later, instead they let the guy keep it and just said bad luck)

I just have a bad feeling because I've tried to make people aware of all the issues i've been having (which have impacted stress, mental health and lead to a diagnosis - even occupational health have said work issues need resolving for me to get back to a level)  and I think these peopple will try and throw me under the bus because the alternative is the managers manager admitting the new manager was a bad call.

I don't have anything against new manager btw, in fact I like to see people succeed  but I don't want it to be at a personal cost and so far the last year or so has been terrible - my initial greivance was about workloads as my immediate peers were letting me take an undue amount of work which led to stress, and whilst management agreed there was an issue after months nothing had been done and I got told off for asking for an update on things as I was getting absolutely burned out 3 months on after the initial report.  Just to put a scope on this the problem was so well known I was informally 'forbidden' from answering people asking for help or tasks for a 30 minute period after the task was raised 'to encourage others to not be used to relying on me'. This had little effect. 


There is something else as well - I've had to raise a subject access request because people on my team were able to quote private emails between me and my manager sorting various issues out - I asked if these had been shared and I was told I was a very open person and probably told other people and 'forgot I did it'. This was followed by a categoric denial that my emails were being shared and a request to not raise it again as it suggested the leads were not professional.  Problem is, when I say quote, I mean the people who received copies of my emails sent me screenshots of the forwarded emails so there's no ifs no buts or doubts -  I've sat on it because they dont want to get in trouble for telling me, and I actually wanted problems to die down not inflate issues and I thought sometimes let people (even managements) mistakes lie but that was before I realised they wanted to hit me financially. I'll try and bite my lip to being disliked or being a little bit prodded and poked but a financial impact needs a response. 

I have scoped the subject access request to hopefully include communuications relating to the pay review, so I am hoping all will be revealed either way unless the organisation can find reasonable grounds to block it.  

I am trying to keep an open mind, the SAR might reveal my manager fighting my corner to let me have a rise and HR over-riding it, but I think this is unlikely as I'm sure my manager would have empthasised what they did to try and protect me as it would make them look good if nothing else. 

If it's easy to get another job, then it sounds as if that's the best idea. The fact you are posting all this information here suggests some fairly deep-seated issues which aren't likely to go away, whatever info your SAR includes and/or whatever pay rise you might ultimately be given.

Dakta

I dont think youre without point and long term it may be a strategy. Im on a course though so ideally dont want to move for another year, was kinda hoping on the raise though ss my mortgage has just gone up.

Not dismissing your opinion, realistically id just settle for being left alone if the financial impacts stop.

The short term concern is how reasonable my info requests are.

Grumpy_chap

I think the OP has two choices:

1. Move jobs.

2.  Stay in current job, keep head down, no noise, no fuss, no SAR, no pay rise, just the most exemplary company-minded, fully compliant and agreeable model employee for a year while completing the course, then move jobs and hope the year of being perfect secures a glowing positive reference.

Undervalued

Dakta said:

Presuming there's a fairly reasonable explanation for being cut out of the pay reviews this year I'd just expect it to be given? My managers manager had no problem explaining it (albeit it verbaly) the other day but asking for further info/clarification on contradictory points seems to be most unwelcome. 

Well legally there doesn't have to be a reason but even if there is one you don't have to be told what it is!

Unless you are (genuinely) being unlawfully discriminated against (e.g race, gender, sexuality etc) or your pay falls below the national minimum wage there is absolutely no legal right to a pay rise.

Dakta

Well my company only provide references in the context of employment dates anyway, this is a known as it's well documented in our portal and something you're reminded of when you make the request -  there's no need to aim to be a model employee for references sake as long as you're not defrauding the company or anything.

There is an update, the SAR became known - *I think* - because I was pulled out of a meeting by a senior member of the management team and was given some time in which it was explained the reason for the events and reassured they weren't connected to anything. I don't know how legit these reasons are but they have been offered. The pay rise has been re-reviewed and has been granted in full, I have been given some access to perks I'd been denied and clarification on what to do if they are denied in the future including a process to discuss matters with managers manager if I feel things aren't being handled consistently in the future.

The SAR is still being progressed, but as things stand I will meet them halfway as they do seem to be trying to be right with me at the moment.