Ex is challenging how much child support I pay

notarobothonest

Just hoping for some advice from anyone with experience of this or just someone 'In the Know'

For context, my ex-wife and I separated just over 5 years ago, and the divorce was finalised about 4 years ago. Since the separation I have been living in a 2 bed terrace house about 15 miles away from the former matrimonial home, wanting to set myself up accordingly so I could provide a suitable place for the children to stay at. That's irrelevant for now, but comes into the story later.

The divorce was a financial disaster for me partly because I had no support in the process from family and bad advice, and partly due to a bad solicitor. I ended up walking away responsible for a £20k home improvement loan which I took out in my own name stupidly as my ex wife had adverse credit, then denied knowing anything about. I also was financially responsible for her car for the same reasons, which I paid for for over a year until the lease ended so she wouldn't be without transport. I've now paid the loan off. As part of the divorce we had a financial agreement where I gave her my share of equity in the family home (about £40k at the time) so if she came to sell it she would have more to play with to get a suitable place for the children, and if she came to remortgage in her own name, she'd have more equity to play with. She agreed to a 3 year window to take me off the mortgage and she did that on the final day of the window by remortgaging with her new partner. 

We also agreed CMS privately, that I would pay her £480 a month and see my children (now 8 and 14) every other weekend (Friday - Monday, 3 nights) and every Tuesday night. The idea is that this would help with school runs and avoid clubs etc. My mum also helps out twice a week doing school pick ups and drop offs. The CMS payment written into the Financial Order was only valid for 12 months I think.

As time has gone by it has been more difficult, as my eldest wants his own space and not have to share a room here with his sister, but it has been sustained for better or worse. I have also since increased the CMS I pay to £700 because I have been lucky enough to get a few pay rises and I have been open about that. This has always been loosely based on the CMS calculator but more in line with what I can afford.

So, in terms of the situation today, I am now remarried (ex is due to remarry in December this year) and we have recently had a baby. Due to the issues with space in the house I have had to temporarily put a stop to my 8 year old and 14 year old staying over, because there is nowhere for them to sleep at present. We are actively viewing houses right now and have an AIP in place so are looking around for something to pop up that is at least a 3 bed, but preferably a 4. I still see my children in the day, picking them up in the morning, then dropping them off in the evening, so nothing has changed apart from where they sleep. 

My ex wife has taken very badly to this new situation which has led to a few bad arguments. Recently she has accused me of not paying enough CMS, and demanded to see my latest payslips, which I have refused. She has tried to ring the HR department at my work, and my wife's work to get information which they rightly refused to provide. When she called my workplace she pretended to be a solicitor. 

She is now saying forget the private agreement, she is going to raise a case against me directly with CMS, which apparently she has now done. She is of the opinion she can get more out of me by going directly through CMS.

If I do the CMS calculator based on zero nights staying over, I should be paying her about £860 a month. If the children sleep over on the routine that has been sustained for a long time, it will be less than what I currently pay her, but I have to be realistic about that both temporarily and long term

Of course my ex wife enjoys the time without the children as it makes her life slightly easier and less hectic, her partner has two kids of his own that he has full custody of and their relationship is not exactly perfect, and knowing I've moved on with my life, have a new baby etc she is doing this out spite/jealousy to see if she can a better financial kick out of me. It never ends.

My question is, what will CMS do next? Will they contact me directly, or will they go straight to my employer. Do I have to provide my earnings to them, or can I tell them to go and swivel. I want to be as fair as possible for the children.

tightauldgit

CMS will check your earnings with HMRC and make a decision based on that and the information your ex has provided. You will be given the opportunity to ask for a reconsideration if you have evidence that corrects any of that information. 

theoretica

CMS don't look at the number of nights a week your children stay with you - but the number of nights a year.  So you will need to look at how long the temporary stop to overnight stays has been/is likely to be.  Have you also included responsibility for your new baby in the calculation?

Spendless

Looking at this from a different approach, why can't the baby be in your room, your 8yo daughter  in the 2nd room and your teenage son on sofa/blow up bed in the living room for the weekends? I get it's not as ideal as you having a lot more space for the 5 of you, but just as a temporary approach whilst you're house-hunting for a bigger place. 

tightauldgit

theoretica said:

CMS don't look at the number of nights a week your children stay with you - but the number of nights a year.  So you will need to look at how long the temporary stop to overnight stays has been/is likely to be.  Have you also included responsibility for your new baby in the calculation?

Possibly more confusing than that I think CMS will just go by whatever any court order says if its put in front of them unless both parents agree otherwise.  

notarobothonest

Spendless said:

Looking at this from a different approach, why can't the baby be in your room, your 8yo daughter  in the 2nd room and your teenage son on sofa/blow up bed in the living room for the weekends? I get it's not as ideal as you having a lot more space for the 5 of you, but just as a temporary approach whilst you're house-hunting for a bigger place. 

This option was explored but the practicality of the house doesn't make it workable, hence why we're looking at moving.

I get the sentiment, but the idea of one of my children sleeping 3 nights on a blow up bed on the living room floor when we are up and down with a baby in the night does not sit right with me as a way to just make the numbers up - though you're right, it would help my cause financially.

Grumpy_chap

notarobothonest said:

Spendless said:

Looking at this from a different approach, why can't the baby be in your room, your 8yo daughter  in the 2nd room and your teenage son on sofa/blow up bed in the living room for the weekends? I get it's not as ideal as you having a lot more space for the 5 of you, but just as a temporary approach whilst you're house-hunting for a bigger place. 

This option was explored but the practicality of the house doesn't make it workable, hence why we're looking at moving.

I get the sentiment, but the idea of one of my children sleeping 3 nights on a blow up bed on the living room floor when we are up and down with a baby in the night does not sit right with me as a way to just make the numbers up - though you're right, it would help my cause financially.

The catch with a "temporary" change is that one week becomes 2 weeks, becomes a month, becomes 3 months and suddenly it was forever.

In the meantime, the Ex is saying to the children that you are not interested, and the children get new activities on the weekends.

No matter how well meaning you are, buying a house can drag out.

TBagpuss

notarobothonest said:

Spendless said:

Looking at this from a different approach, why can't the baby be in your room, your 8yo daughter  in the 2nd room and your teenage son on sofa/blow up bed in the living room for the weekends? I get it's not as ideal as you having a lot more space for the 5 of you, but just as a temporary approach whilst you're house-hunting for a bigger place. 

This option was explored but the practicality of the house doesn't make it workable, hence why we're looking at moving.

I get the sentiment, but the idea of one of my children sleeping 3 nights on a blow up bed on the living room floor when we are up and down with a baby in the night does not sit right with me as a way to just make the numbers up - though you're right, it would help my cause financially.

Another option is to temporarily have an arrangements where the children stay on different nights - is this something your ex would be open to? It might be that they continue to come alternate weekends but that on visit, son stays over and Dau goes home to sleep and the next, the other way round, or that the 8 y.o stays over 9as they are less independent) ad 14 perhaps comes in the day and maybe stays over once n the week so they also get a bit of time with you without their sibling. It might make it easier to then reestablish the regular overnights for them both, and in the mean time lets them feel that they are not being pushed out by the baby and has less of a financial impact.

You can't refuse to provide income details to CMS - they can seek info from HMRC but if they think you are not cooperating my understanding is that they may simply make an assessment at a higher rate to encourage you to cooperate. you could also end up being pushed onto Collect & Pay which involves paying admin fees on top of the CMS assessment.

ZaSa1418

How old is the baby? My now 8 year old was in our bedroom until she was just over 2 years old as there was no other space. 

If she has gone to the CMS there isnt much you can do now, when they contact you answer their questions and provide any documents.  

I would 100% be rethinking not having the kids stay over when you should even if it will be a struggle space wise. 

As for her contacting your work and your wifes i hope you told her that is unacceptable behaviour 

Spendless

notarobothonest said:

Spendless said:

Looking at this from a different approach, why can't the baby be in your room, your 8yo daughter  in the 2nd room and your teenage son on sofa/blow up bed in the living room for the weekends? I get it's not as ideal as you having a lot more space for the 5 of you, but just as a temporary approach whilst you're house-hunting for a bigger place. 

This option was explored but the practicality of the house doesn't make it workable, hence why we're looking at moving.

I get the sentiment, but the idea of one of my children sleeping 3 nights on a blow up bed on the living room floor when we are up and down with a baby in the night does not sit right with me as a way to just make the numbers up - though you're right, it would help my cause financially.

Not sure why. Teenagers are either dead to the world in the early hours or have yet to go to sleep. Baby would be in your room so there'd be little being up and down to be done, if it's a case of making formula for night feeds, do they still do those ready to drink cartons (mine are in their 20s so unsure) or explore creating  a mini feeding station for such times.

Your ex clearly is unhappy that the o/night visits have stopped due to new baby. What about reducing from 3 to 1 or 2 nights if it causes a lot of upheaval .  

warby68

Bluntly, being as fair as possible to the children as you say in your OP, would mean not stopping their sleepovers when you had a new baby. 

In this case, I can understand why your ex is kicking off in whatever way she can, mama bear sees her children very clearly dropping. down the pecking order.

The money problem may go away if you rethink that position. I'm not sure why a new baby directly affects their ability to sleep over as baby can be in with you. Harder work maybe and not as easy or idyllic as nesting with just your wife and baby of course. Hopefully you haven't made a nursery yet which physically removes your older. children's bedroom.

I do appreciate that you plan to move but a move unfortunately tends to take a long time and children see time differently as well. I also appreciate you will be juggling a few balls but what I and probably many see is new baby = no room for existing children and it tugs hard at the emotions regardless of how practical you think you are trying to be.

Meantime, no you can't refuse the information.