Work not supplying training

StevenB12

Hey guys, how you all doing? 

So, strange one. I know the answer to this is do not undertake any work unless we have the training..

I'm looking for some advice on how to go about this. 

I'm a supervisor at a large utility firm, basically at the moment I'm in charge of a few lads, all of which their training cards are at different stages, some have ran out and some are about to. About 8 months ago work set up a training matrix of all our cards, when they would run out and what we may need doing forward. 

Needless to say, even my own cards in terms of basic site cards have expired, and we are no closer to getting them renewed, sent probably about 40 emails regarding this over the last few months, spoke to my line managers and even the health and safety manager (health and safety manager runs the training but can't put us on courses unless authorised) 

They are drip feeding us training, doing one persons card and then leaving the rest, or giving us cards that we don't need or a downgrade on what we have (to which we were promised when starting all cards would be kept up to date)

So as said at the start, we are still undertaking certain tasks and refusing others...is there any way I can go about getting this sorted? 

Thank you! 

MattMattMattUK

StevenB12 said:

Hey guys, how you all doing? 

So, strange one. I know the answer to this is do not undertake any work unless we have the training..

I'm looking for some advice on how to go about this. 

I'm a supervisor at a large utility firm, basically at the moment I'm in charge of a few lads, all of which their training cards are at different stages, some have ran out and some are about to. About 8 months ago work set up a training matrix of all our cards, when they would run out and what we may need doing forward. 

Needless to say, even my own cards in terms of basic site cards have expired, and we are no closer to getting them renewed, sent probably about 40 emails regarding this over the last few months, spoke to my line managers and even the health and safety manager (health and safety manager runs the training but can't put us on courses unless authorised) 

They are drip feeding us training, doing one persons card and then leaving the rest, or giving us cards that we don't need or a downgrade on what we have (to which we were promised when starting all cards would be kept up to date)

So as said at the start, we are still undertaking certain tasks and refusing others...is there any way I can go about getting this sorted? 

Thank you! 

Are you legally responsible for anyone's health and safety, or are you responsible or liable under any legislation (eg. you are the supervisor in charge during substation maintenance, dealing with water mains etc.)? If you are then the only answer is that you must stop work if you are no longer compliant. 

Are you legally employed by the "large utility firm" (eg. National Grid, Thames Water, Cadent), or are you a subcontractor of some description? 

StevenB12

@MattMattMattUK

I'm legally responsible after my manager is he isn't on site as I the become the person in charge of the site. Obviously we are all responsible to a degree in terms of common sense (you'd think haha) but yeah, it's me after my manager. 

We are a sub contractor on our biggest contract, but we are also the principle contractor on a lot of projects as well, so it mixes between the two. 

MattMattMattUK

StevenB12 said:

@MattMattMattUK

I'm legally responsible after my manager is he isn't on site as I the become the person in charge of the site. Obviously we are all responsible to a degree in terms of common sense (you'd think haha) but yeah, it's me after my manager. 

We are a sub contractor on our biggest contract, but we are also the principle contractor on a lot of projects as well, so it mixes between the two. 

On that basis I would be genuinely thinking about not working, whilst also telling the compliance department that they need a full training day before the end of the month. If you run a site with your qualifications expired then you risk liability issues. The actual work may at best be unlawful and may actually be illegal depending on the sector and the certifications which have lapsed, for example it is illegal to work on parts of the gas network, electricity grid and water mains without valid certification, so it is essential that you establish your personal position. If that is the case and the primary contractor, the relevant company, the regulator or the HSE finds out the contacts could be terminated with penalties, your employer may be liable for unlimited fines and you may be personally liable as well.

Do you have a union you can speak to?

StevenB12

@MattMattMattUK

No union unfortunately mate.

The outlining issues are on what "might" happen at the moment is the way they are looking at it, but they are viewing it as "it might not happen"

While my argument is the site is safe and everything is done correctly, there's always the off chance something can go wrong, and that's when the big problems will occur as you said. 

My emails have basically consisted of "x,y and z are now out of date and are essential to our work" so z will get replaced for one team member, while everyone needs it. 

MattMattMattUK

That is a tough one, personally I would be seriously considering my position at a company that was prepared to breach regulations with such a blasé attitude. Remember if you go to the regulator you are protected as a whistle-blower. I would recommend you speak to ACAS, you need to be sure of where you stand personally. 

StevenB12

Thanks mate. 

Will definitely have to look further into it and see where we can take it. Since it's now been about 8 months and nothing has really progressed I'm skeptical as to whether it will actually get done at all.

Thanks for the help 

Savvy_Sue

And I'd join a union, and encourage all the lads to do the same.

This sounds like a disaster in waiting.

TheSpiddalKid

It may be worth also looking at if your company has a whistleblowing policy/procedure. This may offer you a route to raise your concerns with someone independent or more senior. Based on what you have said, it is possible that this would fall within the scope of a protected disclosure (It may do so already based on what you have told your manager and H&S manager). 

StevenB12

Thanks for the advice guys. 

I understand from the business view that yes some of this training is expensive and they will lose man time over it, however it is essential training for times when we are operating heavy machinery in public or on public roads etc.

penners324

You could point out that the company owner could get heavily fined or go to jail. That'll be far more expensive than not paying for training