Employer

Bobbobbobingalong

robatwork said:

Your first responsibility is to yourself. You should start job hunting as your only sensible option may be to leave. Whether you then want to follow up with a claim of constructive dismissal is something for you to consider.

Which is a strategy that is guaranteed to fail so the OP ought to be very careful about doing this very thing.

Jude57

Suzycoll said:

xylophone said:

My employer has had 3 OH reports done and each one specify categorically I should be working from home. 

What type of lighting do you use at home?

Is there no way in which this can be replicated in the office?

https://www.btod.com/blog/protect-your-eyes-at-the-office/

https://www.seratechnologies.com/office-lighting-guide/

apparently nothing can be done about the lighting in work 

I'm assuming you're not a Union member because they'd be your first port of call in this situation so the following is based on that assumption.

I'd suggest you arrange an assessment by Access to Work. They're an independent government agency who assess and make recommendations for reasonable adjustments, specialist equipment or aids to keep disabled people in the workplace. Your employer would have to agree to the assessor visiting the workplace but given that yours appears to be a large organisation, it should be something that they have agreed to before. They may be able to recommend options neither you nor your employer have considered, and in any event, you requesting such an assessment demonstrates your willingness to be pro-active in finding solutions for your employer. If your employer refuses to allow the assessor to attend, they'd potentially open themselves up to action under disability legislation but hopefully that won't be necessary and I wouldn't mention that at this point. You seem to want to find a solution rather than wanting to impose your preferred outcome on your employer and that reasonable approach is always to be preferred until and unless all reasonable approaches fail. See here:

https://www.gov.uk/access-to-work

Employers don't legally have to follow Access to Work recommendations for adjustments but again, it would be a potential point in any Tribunal evidence.

It's worth checking whether you have legal cover via your home, car or other insurance as many people do. I'd also suggest that, if you haven't already, you contact the RNIB who can offer support and advice:

https://www.rnib.org.uk/

Your own condition may of course have its own support groups and I'd also recommend you seek moral support there because others may have encountered and resolved the same issues. 

Savvy_Sue

Keep chasing the union. If the workplace rep is not responding, contact the branch.

Have you taken this to HR? I'm just wondering, is it just your managers not wanting transfers out of your dept, or truly an organisation-wide ruling?

To all those saying how easy it should be to fix the lights: we've had rumbling complaints about the lights in one of our small offices. We've changed the type of strip light, twice, to no avail. We've tried covers and filters. Finally, we've installed spotlights.

And all I can say is, after all that, I'd be unable to work in that office without additional lighting,  because I can't see properly in there. 

Note that no-one was at risk of permanent damage from the previous lighting, and I think everyone is now deliriously happy. But it wasn't easy, and I hate it.

Jude57

Suzycoll said:

Jude57 said:

Suzycoll said:

xylophone said:

My employer has had 3 OH reports done and each one specify categorically I should be working from home. 

What type of lighting do you use at home?

Is there no way in which this can be replicated in the office?

https://www.btod.com/blog/protect-your-eyes-at-the-office/

https://www.seratechnologies.com/office-lighting-guide/

apparently nothing can be done about the lighting in work 

I'm assuming you're not a Union member because they'd be your first port of call in this situation so the following is based on that assumption.

I'd suggest you arrange an assessment by Access to Work. They're an independent government agency who assess and make recommendations for reasonable adjustments, specialist equipment or aids to keep disabled people in the workplace. Your employer would have to agree to the assessor visiting the workplace but given that yours appears to be a large organisation, it should be something that they have agreed to before. They may be able to recommend options neither you nor your employer have considered, and in any event, you requesting such an assessment demonstrates your willingness to be pro-active in finding solutions for your employer. If your employer refuses to allow the assessor to attend, they'd potentially open themselves up to action under disability legislation but hopefully that won't be necessary and I wouldn't mention that at this point. You seem to want to find a solution rather than wanting to impose your preferred outcome on your employer and that reasonable approach is always to be preferred until and unless all reasonable approaches fail. See here:

https://www.gov.uk/access-to-work

Employers don't legally have to follow Access to Work recommendations for adjustments but again, it would be a potential point in any Tribunal evidence.

It's worth checking whether you have legal cover via your home, car or other insurance as many people do. I'd also suggest that, if you haven't already, you contact the RNIB who can offer support and advice:

https://www.rnib.org.uk/

Your own condition may of course have its own support groups and I'd also recommend you seek moral support there because others may have encountered and resolved the same issues. 

Jude
Yes I am a union member and am waiting for them go get in touch. Im not sure how effective they will be as not a very good union in my organisation. However, I will  ask for a union rep to attend any meetings with me.
 Your constructive advice is ever so useful. I was not aware of any of this -  thank you so much. I will certainly look into this (just need to find the energy, feeling low at the moment). Thanks again your a star x

If you're finding your workplace rep isn't very useful other than accompanying you to meetings, make contact with the Regional Officer, details of whom should be on the Union website, or your local rep can involve Regional level support because, frankly, the very best Union Rep is a generalist and when it comes to supporting disabled members with specific, complex needs, it's not unreasonable to ask for a more senior Union official. Remember that your legal right to have a Union Rep with you usually only applies to disciplinary meetings. Larger employers tend to allow them to attend other meetings but I'd advise that you seek permission from your employer to have your Rep accompany you. It could be considered a reasonable adjustment to have a Union Rep accompany you to read any documents you may be given and to take notes, depending on whether your condition affects you in that way.

I'd warn against seeking official advice and support outside the Union though. That would mean legal advice at this point. Doing so can mean the Union won't represent you any further so it's important to be aware of that. If you need legal representation your Union may provide it but the level of support will depend on various factors including whether your case affects other members. Your local Rep should be able to explain this or, if not, then your Regional Officer certainly can. 

I'm happy to help. I know how exhausting it can be just trying to deal with day to day things when you're trying to cope with a new diagnosis. I hope you manage to get some rest. Take care. X

Diamandis

Maybe you could suggest a canopy for around your workstation? 

Undervalued

Suzycoll said:

Jude57 said:

Suzycoll said:

Jude57 said:

Suzycoll said:

xylophone said:

My employer has had 3 OH reports done and each one specify categorically I should be working from home. 

What type of lighting do you use at home?

Is there no way in which this can be replicated in the office?

https://www.btod.com/blog/protect-your-eyes-at-the-office/

https://www.seratechnologies.com/office-lighting-guide/

apparently nothing can be done about the lighting in work 

I'm assuming you're not a Union member because they'd be your first port of call in this situation so the following is based on that assumption.

I'd suggest you arrange an assessment by Access to Work. They're an independent government agency who assess and make recommendations for reasonable adjustments, specialist equipment or aids to keep disabled people in the workplace. Your employer would have to agree to the assessor visiting the workplace but given that yours appears to be a large organisation, it should be something that they have agreed to before. They may be able to recommend options neither you nor your employer have considered, and in any event, you requesting such an assessment demonstrates your willingness to be pro-active in finding solutions for your employer. If your employer refuses to allow the assessor to attend, they'd potentially open themselves up to action under disability legislation but hopefully that won't be necessary and I wouldn't mention that at this point. You seem to want to find a solution rather than wanting to impose your preferred outcome on your employer and that reasonable approach is always to be preferred until and unless all reasonable approaches fail. See here:

https://www.gov.uk/access-to-work

Employers don't legally have to follow Access to Work recommendations for adjustments but again, it would be a potential point in any Tribunal evidence.

It's worth checking whether you have legal cover via your home, car or other insurance as many people do. I'd also suggest that, if you haven't already, you contact the RNIB who can offer support and advice:

https://www.rnib.org.uk/

Your own condition may of course have its own support groups and I'd also recommend you seek moral support there because others may have encountered and resolved the same issues. 

Jude
Yes I am a union member and am waiting for them go get in touch. Im not sure how effective they will be as not a very good union in my organisation. However, I will  ask for a union rep to attend any meetings with me.
 Your constructive advice is ever so useful. I was not aware of any of this -  thank you so much. I will certainly look into this (just need to find the energy, feeling low at the moment). Thanks again your a star x

If you're finding your workplace rep isn't very useful other than accompanying you to meetings, make contact with the Regional Officer, details of whom should be on the Union website, or your local rep can involve Regional level support because, frankly, the very best Union Rep is a generalist and when it comes to supporting disabled members with specific, complex needs, it's not unreasonable to ask for a more senior Union official. Remember that your legal right to have a Union Rep with you usually only applies to disciplinary meetings. Larger employers tend to allow them to attend other meetings but I'd advise that you seek permission from your employer to have your Rep accompany you. It could be considered a reasonable adjustment to have a Union Rep accompany you to read any documents you may be given and to take notes, depending on whether your condition affects you in that way.

I'd warn against seeking official advice and support outside the Union though. That would mean legal advice at this point. Doing so can mean the Union won't represent you any further so it's important to be aware of that. If you need legal representation your Union may provide it but the level of support will depend on various factors including whether your case affects other members. Your local Rep should be able to explain this or, if not, then your Regional Officer certainly can. 

I'm happy to help. I know how exhausting it can be just trying to deal with day to day things when you're trying to cope with a new diagnosis. I hope you manage to get some rest. Take care. X

Thank you again.

The reason I want to take a union rep with me is more to take notes of what was said. As sadly I don't trust the managers in my dept , they have a habit of denying saying things after the event. 

You don't have an automatic legal right to be accompanied at this sort of meeting, although as Jude57 has said it may be considered a "reasonable adjustment" in these circumstances. The legal right to be accompanied by a work colleague or an accredited trades union rep only applies to formal grievance and disciplinary meetings.

The employer may well allow it, in which case fine. If they don't it is a judgement call whether to try and push the point or not.

The quality or lay union reps varies enormously form the excellent to the abysmal......

Jude57

Undervalued said:

Suzycoll said:

Jude57 said:

Suzycoll said:

Jude57 said:

Suzycoll said:

xylophone said:

My employer has had 3 OH reports done and each one specify categorically I should be working from home. 

What type of lighting do you use at home?

Is there no way in which this can be replicated in the office?

https://www.btod.com/blog/protect-your-eyes-at-the-office/

https://www.seratechnologies.com/office-lighting-guide/

apparently nothing can be done about the lighting in work 

I'm assuming you're not a Union member because they'd be your first port of call in this situation so the following is based on that assumption.

I'd suggest you arrange an assessment by Access to Work. They're an independent government agency who assess and make recommendations for reasonable adjustments, specialist equipment or aids to keep disabled people in the workplace. Your employer would have to agree to the assessor visiting the workplace but given that yours appears to be a large organisation, it should be something that they have agreed to before. They may be able to recommend options neither you nor your employer have considered, and in any event, you requesting such an assessment demonstrates your willingness to be pro-active in finding solutions for your employer. If your employer refuses to allow the assessor to attend, they'd potentially open themselves up to action under disability legislation but hopefully that won't be necessary and I wouldn't mention that at this point. You seem to want to find a solution rather than wanting to impose your preferred outcome on your employer and that reasonable approach is always to be preferred until and unless all reasonable approaches fail. See here:

https://www.gov.uk/access-to-work

Employers don't legally have to follow Access to Work recommendations for adjustments but again, it would be a potential point in any Tribunal evidence.

It's worth checking whether you have legal cover via your home, car or other insurance as many people do. I'd also suggest that, if you haven't already, you contact the RNIB who can offer support and advice:

https://www.rnib.org.uk/

Your own condition may of course have its own support groups and I'd also recommend you seek moral support there because others may have encountered and resolved the same issues. 

Jude
Yes I am a union member and am waiting for them go get in touch. Im not sure how effective they will be as not a very good union in my organisation. However, I will  ask for a union rep to attend any meetings with me.
 Your constructive advice is ever so useful. I was not aware of any of this -  thank you so much. I will certainly look into this (just need to find the energy, feeling low at the moment). Thanks again your a star x

If you're finding your workplace rep isn't very useful other than accompanying you to meetings, make contact with the Regional Officer, details of whom should be on the Union website, or your local rep can involve Regional level support because, frankly, the very best Union Rep is a generalist and when it comes to supporting disabled members with specific, complex needs, it's not unreasonable to ask for a more senior Union official. Remember that your legal right to have a Union Rep with you usually only applies to disciplinary meetings. Larger employers tend to allow them to attend other meetings but I'd advise that you seek permission from your employer to have your Rep accompany you. It could be considered a reasonable adjustment to have a Union Rep accompany you to read any documents you may be given and to take notes, depending on whether your condition affects you in that way.

I'd warn against seeking official advice and support outside the Union though. That would mean legal advice at this point. Doing so can mean the Union won't represent you any further so it's important to be aware of that. If you need legal representation your Union may provide it but the level of support will depend on various factors including whether your case affects other members. Your local Rep should be able to explain this or, if not, then your Regional Officer certainly can. 

I'm happy to help. I know how exhausting it can be just trying to deal with day to day things when you're trying to cope with a new diagnosis. I hope you manage to get some rest. Take care. X

Thank you again.

The reason I want to take a union rep with me is more to take notes of what was said. As sadly I don't trust the managers in my dept , they have a habit of denying saying things after the event. 

You don't have an automatic legal right to be accompanied at this sort of meeting, although as Jude57 has said it may be considered a "reasonable adjustment" in these circumstances. The legal right to be accompanied by a work colleague or an accredited trades union rep only applies to formal grievance and disciplinary meetings.

The employer may well allow it, in which case fine. If they don't it is a judgement call whether to try and push the point or not.

The quality or lay union reps varies enormously form the excellent to the abysmal......

I entirely agree and I thought @Suzycoll's real reason for wanting to have a Rep with her was probably as a witness. Unusually in such cases, her disability gives her an excellent (and unarguable by anyone not medically qualified in her particular condition) reason for needing support in any meeting. As we say, though, best to request permission and, if that's denied, ask for the reason for denial in writing. 

Undervalued

Jude57 said:

Undervalued said:

Suzycoll said:

Jude57 said:

Suzycoll said:

Jude57 said:

Suzycoll said:

xylophone said:

My employer has had 3 OH reports done and each one specify categorically I should be working from home. 

What type of lighting do you use at home?

Is there no way in which this can be replicated in the office?

https://www.btod.com/blog/protect-your-eyes-at-the-office/

https://www.seratechnologies.com/office-lighting-guide/

apparently nothing can be done about the lighting in work 

I'm assuming you're not a Union member because they'd be your first port of call in this situation so the following is based on that assumption.

I'd suggest you arrange an assessment by Access to Work. They're an independent government agency who assess and make recommendations for reasonable adjustments, specialist equipment or aids to keep disabled people in the workplace. Your employer would have to agree to the assessor visiting the workplace but given that yours appears to be a large organisation, it should be something that they have agreed to before. They may be able to recommend options neither you nor your employer have considered, and in any event, you requesting such an assessment demonstrates your willingness to be pro-active in finding solutions for your employer. If your employer refuses to allow the assessor to attend, they'd potentially open themselves up to action under disability legislation but hopefully that won't be necessary and I wouldn't mention that at this point. You seem to want to find a solution rather than wanting to impose your preferred outcome on your employer and that reasonable approach is always to be preferred until and unless all reasonable approaches fail. See here:

https://www.gov.uk/access-to-work

Employers don't legally have to follow Access to Work recommendations for adjustments but again, it would be a potential point in any Tribunal evidence.

It's worth checking whether you have legal cover via your home, car or other insurance as many people do. I'd also suggest that, if you haven't already, you contact the RNIB who can offer support and advice:

https://www.rnib.org.uk/

Your own condition may of course have its own support groups and I'd also recommend you seek moral support there because others may have encountered and resolved the same issues. 

Jude
Yes I am a union member and am waiting for them go get in touch. Im not sure how effective they will be as not a very good union in my organisation. However, I will  ask for a union rep to attend any meetings with me.
 Your constructive advice is ever so useful. I was not aware of any of this -  thank you so much. I will certainly look into this (just need to find the energy, feeling low at the moment). Thanks again your a star x

If you're finding your workplace rep isn't very useful other than accompanying you to meetings, make contact with the Regional Officer, details of whom should be on the Union website, or your local rep can involve Regional level support because, frankly, the very best Union Rep is a generalist and when it comes to supporting disabled members with specific, complex needs, it's not unreasonable to ask for a more senior Union official. Remember that your legal right to have a Union Rep with you usually only applies to disciplinary meetings. Larger employers tend to allow them to attend other meetings but I'd advise that you seek permission from your employer to have your Rep accompany you. It could be considered a reasonable adjustment to have a Union Rep accompany you to read any documents you may be given and to take notes, depending on whether your condition affects you in that way.

I'd warn against seeking official advice and support outside the Union though. That would mean legal advice at this point. Doing so can mean the Union won't represent you any further so it's important to be aware of that. If you need legal representation your Union may provide it but the level of support will depend on various factors including whether your case affects other members. Your local Rep should be able to explain this or, if not, then your Regional Officer certainly can. 

I'm happy to help. I know how exhausting it can be just trying to deal with day to day things when you're trying to cope with a new diagnosis. I hope you manage to get some rest. Take care. X

Thank you again.

The reason I want to take a union rep with me is more to take notes of what was said. As sadly I don't trust the managers in my dept , they have a habit of denying saying things after the event. 

You don't have an automatic legal right to be accompanied at this sort of meeting, although as Jude57 has said it may be considered a "reasonable adjustment" in these circumstances. The legal right to be accompanied by a work colleague or an accredited trades union rep only applies to formal grievance and disciplinary meetings.

The employer may well allow it, in which case fine. If they don't it is a judgement call whether to try and push the point or not.

The quality or lay union reps varies enormously form the excellent to the abysmal......

I entirely agree and I thought @Suzycoll's real reason for wanting to have a Rep with her was probably as a witness. Unusually in such cases, her disability gives her an excellent (and unarguable by anyone not medically qualified in her particular condition) reason for needing support in any meeting. As we say, though, best to request permission and, if that's denied, ask for the reason for denial in writing. 

Does it?

Apologies if I have missed anything, but unless her eye condition makes it difficult for her to read papers at the meeting, I cannot see that it is relevant to the conduct of the meeting.

 

Annisele

The story I'm about to tell sounds too daft to be true, but it is - and sharing just in case it's helpful. But there's no legal advice in it at all.

A colleague of mine had a similar issue, in that our lighting kicked off her migraines. Our senior managers gave all sorts of reasons why the lighting couldn't be lowered - there was no evidence that lowering the lights would help (despite multiple OH reports); it wasn't physically possible to lower the lights (which was odd because they're on dimly all night); our insurance policy required lights to be at a certain brightness at all times; plus several more that I can't remember.

She tried to persuade management, and unsuccessfully raised a grievance. But the thing that actually solved the problem was making friends with the staff in our maintenance department. It turned out that none of the managers involved actually knew how to turn the lights down, and they genuinely believed that it wasn't possible. Requests were going from our management team to our HR department's management team to our Facilities management team to our company's landlord, and all of those people thought we had some super special newfangled lights that couldn't be dimmed. Enter one guy with a stepledder who looked extremely puzzled, pressed some buttons, and hey presto dim corner.

Undervalued

Suzycoll said:

Suzycoll said:

Hello all

I will try to keep this brief without revealing any personal information.

For many years the lights in the office (too bright)  where I work have been bothering me (headaches, vertigo, vomiting). I wont bore you all with all the problems I have had in the past.

Fast forward to the present time. I have recently been diagnosed with an eye condition, for which I have had treatment on both eyes. The optometrist advised that if I have any further 'episodes' (as above) each one could impair my vision further. 

My employer has had 3 OH reports done and each one specify categorically I should be working from home. Management flatly refuse to do this, the latest idea is to move me to a different office to work (same lighting). This will not solve the problem I have.

I don't really want to post such personal things on a forum. However, I am at my wits end and just don't know where to turn.

Can anyone provide me with any constructive and legal help 
Thanks in advance  

    **********UPDATE  *********
The office I currently work in (is a rented office and the lights, although not brilliant, but are better) is closing by August and I would have to go back to original location (bad lights).18 months from my first OH report, my employer has finally decided to 'try' and resolve the situation. These are the options I have been given.

 (a) move to another building (same lights) change my contract/shift pattern /different job

 (b) look for internal jobs (based in the same building as original-bad lights)

(c) if a a and b are not suitable I will be put on AAA (looked it up doesn't make sense to me?) where I will be put on a list and all available positions will be offered to me (no idea where these positions are hiding at the moment ?) and have three months to trial them.

(d) dismissed 

I must add that WFH & turning down or trying to rectify the light problem is totally off the table.

I feel as if I have been thrown under a bus and am between a rock and a hard place ?

Any advice anybody please ? I am extremely stressed.
thanks 

I don't think there is a great deal I can add to my earlier posts.

It all comes down to "reasonable adjustments". You consider these to be reasonable and the employer doesn't.

 If the situation is deadlocked then only an employment tribunal can decide. Even then, it cannot force the employer to make the adjustments but it can award you compensation if they refuse.

You need to seek legal advice. What are your union doing? They should be you first port of call as if they find you are seeking legal advice elsewhere they will most likely drop all support.