Just found out we own next door's outhouse!

taylormum

When looking at our house paperwork ready to change mortgage providers, I have found a picture which shows that I actually own next door's outhouse, which is attached to my own. Next door is owned by Home Group (Council house). I have owned my house since 2007. Does anyone know if we can offer to sell the outhouse to Home Group, and, if so, how do we go about it? Any idea how much we'd sell it for?

tacpot12

I doubt that it is really yours. The problem is that when properties are registered with the Land Registry someone is supposed to look at the Deeds and check that the plan that will define the title actually shows what is included in the property. The 'someone' that is supposed to do this is the solicitor that is registering the land, but solicitors are lazy and don't acutally visit the property - they just send a plan to the owner and say "Does this look right". The owner generally replies "Yeah, that looks sort of right." and the solicitor goes ahead and files an incorrect plan with the land registry. 

I found I didn't own the garden of my house because the vendor's solicitor was lazy and asked the vendors (who were the executors of an estate so didn't really know what they were selling) who didn't check the plans. Having had the problem, I notice it when it comes up on MSE and other forums and it seems to be a REALLY common problem. I would guess than at least 30% of properties in the UK have a significant mistake with the Title Plan! 

If you have the deeds for your house, or if Home Group have the deeds for the neighbours proeprty, you can look at these to tell whether a mistake has been made. Without the deeds, you don't know, but you don't want to be trying to rip off someone just because you legally can! if the Deeds show it is your property, come back here to ask your original question again. 

If you don't get this fixed, someone is going to spot the problem sooner or later, probably at a really inconvenient time, i.e. just when you are selling your house for a really good price.

The best thing to do it to co-operate with Home Group to get the plan at the Land Registry corrected. Unless the source of the mistake can be identified, it might be as well to offer to pay some proportion of the legal costs to get this sorted. You might argue that Home Group have greater financial resources that you do as a private individual, so should pay a greater proportion of the cost. It is unfortunately but mistakes do happen, and sometimes it costs to get them put right. 

km1500

...or they really do.own the outhouse.

ProDave

Assuming you cannot enter the outhouse from your garden and it is only accessible from their garden, then an adverse possession claim would succeed.

loubel

First you'd need to check you definitely own it.  Is it the title plan that you're looking at? Land Registry plans don't show things below a certain size due to their scale so depending on how big the outhouse is it might not show. If you still have your property report, see if there were any other title documents (e.g. original conveyance/transfer) included as sometimes these have more detailed plans which might show the outhouse as excluded. 

The Council might not be interested in buying it though and you would need your lender's consent to do so anyway. The legal costs may exceed any price. Given you've never believed you own it you could offer to transfer it to them during your remortgage if they cover the costs. You could ask your solicitor to raise this with them or could try approaching directly but be aware that by doing so you are flagging up that there is an error on your title and your solicitor would need to inform your lender which could cause issues with your remortgage.

sevenhills

You might ask them to pay for any fees to correct the land registry mistake.

user1977

sevenhills said:

You might ask them to pay for any fees to correct the land registry mistake.

Or they might ask the OP to pay - after all, it's the OP who seems likely to have more a immediate need to sort this out to satisfy lenders or future buyers. It's not some great asset, it's a title discrepancy with a third party occupying part of the OP's property.

propertyrental

taylormum said:

When looking at our house paperwork ready to change mortgage providers, I have found a picture which shows that I actually own next door's outhouse, ......

what 'paperwork'?

The Land registry is the ultimate arbiter of who owns what, and they don't have pictures. Just a Title document that describes in broad words what the Title includes, and an associated Plan, showing the outline of the boundaries (at a high level).

So what exactly are you looking at?

TBG01

tacpot12 said:

I doubt that it is really yours. The problem is that when properties are registered with the Land Registry someone is supposed to look at the Deeds and check that the plan that will define the title actually shows what is included in the property. The 'someone' that is supposed to do this is the solicitor that is registering the land, 

Unless you're buying a new build, the land is already registered, with a filed title plan. If the property is a new build, the plans have been drawn up by the developer.

but solicitors are lazy and don't acutally visit the property

Solicitor based in Newcastle, represents client buying property in London. Does the visit and possible subsequent revisits go down as disbursements or expenses?

they just send a plan to the owner and say "Does this look right". The owner generally replies "Yeah, that looks sort of right." 

The plan is sent to both parties to confirm it "looks right".

and the solicitor goes ahead and files an incorrect plan with the land registry. 

Again, the land is already registered, with a filed plan spanning several years. Both the buyer and seller have confirmed the plan is correct. How is the solicitor then at fault for the outhouse not being pointed out by EITHER party?

I found I didn't own the garden of my house 

You should've also been sent a copy of the plan and asked to confirm you believe it was what you expected. If you did, surely it was evident from the plan the garden was missing?

because the vendor's solicitor was lazy and asked the vendors (who were the executors of an estate so didn't really know what they were selling) who didn't check the plans

That's why the property was sold with limited title guarantee I.e they don't know about the title.

 I would guess than at least 30% of properties in the UK have a significant mistake with the Title Plan

You're pulling numbers out of nowhere. 

tacpot12

My responses to TBG01:

But my point is that when land is first registered (and it still isn't all registered) is when the true title gets lost because the Land Registry doesn't digitise the deeds and add them as part of the title record. It's a fundamentally flawed system, given the history of property transactions until the time the Land Registry was setup.  

Solicitor in Newcastle selling a property in London goes to London and charges their client. I don't care whether they want to sell this as a disbursement or an expense - client pays - end of. 

The plan may be sent to both parties, but both parties are usually consumers with little knowledge of land law or the number of times that the title plans are wrong. Of course, you are correct that I am just pulling numbers out of the air, but there are clearly a substantial number of problems with title plans. I understand that the sites where I see these problems discussed never the discuss the vast number of transactions where there has not been a problem, but there are so many issues, all with the same root cause (a lack of diligence by someone in the sale process AND the Land Registry not digitising the orginal deeds) that I have concluded the problem is a substantial one. 

I lay the lack of diligence problem at the vendor's solcitors' door because the vendor's solicitor is a professional, being paid to do a job by a consumer. I contend that they acting fraudlently if the represent a property sale where they themselves have not satisified themselves of what the property consists of on the ground. Currently, they take too much on trust. The old joke about someone representing themselves in court having a fool as a client has an equivalent in property conveyancing - a solictor representing a property vendor has a fool for a client! Solictors need to deal with the reality of the client, as well as the reality of the property on the ground.  

I was sent the plan for the property I purchased, and I saw the big red line around the house but not around the garden, but I didn't realise that it meant the garden wasn't included in the sale. Of course I would have raised this if I had realised, but I was a first-time buyer. It was all new to me. How was I supposed to know that the redline wasn't supposed to be around just the house? Part of my evidence in my adverse possession claim was the Estate Agent's flyer for the property that showed and described the garden. Luckily I had renewed the fence around the garden a few years after buying the property and had kept the receipt. This was also supplied to the Land Registry. Without this evidence, it might have been more problematic.  

I was angry about it though, because the deeds which were eventually returned to me clearly stated that the garden was part of the previous conveyance, but the vendors solictor's argued that they had not made a mistake in extracting the title plan from the deeds when they omitted the garden. They would not correct the error, so I had to make an  adverse possession claim and take out indemnity insurance.  The fact that there is a viable title indemnity insurance business in the UK also hints at the scale of the problem not being minor as you assert. 

Their office was 500m from the property, so they could have surveyed it easily, but had it not been, then the vendor should have paid for a property review by a professional (i.e. someone who can be sued if they get it wrong) of the situation on the ground. 

This is my opinion. My post was as a warning to all and advice to the OP that mistakes can and do happen. 

silvercar

I would keep things simple. You are remortgaging, you don't need to bother with an extra outhouse now, delaying a remortgage while the deeds are sorted out could cost you more than any potential gain.