Does this sound okay - asking for increase in offer (new job)?

annetheman

Marcon said:

annetheman said:

JReacher1 said:

annetheman said:

comeandgo said:

So you are saying if you don’t get the raise you will not accept the position?   I would just accept your non acceptance and look at the next candidate.  

If I send the email, I hope the recruiter reads it better than you have, since it doesn't say I won't accept the offer if I didn't get the raise.

Ignore them. They won’t be used to this sort of negotiation. 

If you want £3k more than go in at £5k and see what they say.  I spend a lot of time recruiting people and you should never take the first offer. They will always have at least one higher offer and at the end of the day they’ll just tell you if you are being unreasonable. At this point they won’t be thinking about switching to another candidate. 

It’s very rare for a candidate to accept the first financial offer they are given. 

Thank you, very good to hear a recruiter/hiring manager's perspective! I somehow figured they could say yes to £3k because it puts it in the middle of the range I gave - £5k might seem like I'm pushing it, as it is the higher end of my range. Honestly, I also just don't have the cojones to do it lol

I did wonder what was the worst that could happen; I agree they would be unlikely to rescind the offer, but I don't want to start on a sour foot, either. I do think I will regret not asking, though!

Then you need to ask, otherwise you're starting a new job with a grievance the employer doesn't even know you have! You will only start on a sour footing  if you don't ask.

This is eye-opening; you are right! I didn't think of it that way, but I would have a secret grievance from the beginning, and I don't want that to be the case at all, as I am otherwise super thrilled about the role and opportunity... Thank you very much for the new perspective!

annetheman

JReacher1 said:

annetheman said:

JReacher1 said:

annetheman said:

comeandgo said:

So you are saying if you don’t get the raise you will not accept the position?   I would just accept your non acceptance and look at the next candidate.  

If I send the email, I hope the recruiter reads it better than you have, since it doesn't say I won't accept the offer if I didn't get the raise.

Ignore them. They won’t be used to this sort of negotiation. 

If you want £3k more than go in at £5k and see what they say.  I spend a lot of time recruiting people and you should never take the first offer. They will always have at least one higher offer and at the end of the day they’ll just tell you if you are being unreasonable. At this point they won’t be thinking about switching to another candidate. 

It’s very rare for a candidate to accept the first financial offer they are given. 

Thank you, very good to hear a recruiter/hiring manager's perspective! I somehow figured they could say yes to £3k because it puts it in the middle of the range I gave - £5k might seem like I'm pushing it, as it is the higher end of my range. Honestly, I also just don't have the cojones to do it lol

I did wonder what was the worst that could happen; I agree they would be unlikely to rescind the offer, but I don't want to start on a sour foot, either. I do think I will regret not asking, though!

Depending on the size of the organisation it will likely be a different team handling the negotiations as opposed to the team who actually hires you so doubt you’ll sour relations.  There will be a band for the role and it seems unlikely asking for £5k more than the offer would push you over the band so go for it. 

Thanks a lot! This is a 10,000+ personnel organisation so I think you might be spot on.

I have gone in at £5k more and 'scheduled to send' tomorrow - I'm too chicken to send it now, and will chicken out if I don't schedule it, so it'll be sent tomorrow 16:30 while I'm out lol.

Hi Recruitmen,

It was great to speak with you as well and thank you very much for confirming the offer and sending across detailed information on the package. I am really excited about the opportunity to join [Company] and the XYZ team! 

I was hoping we could discuss the base salary of £xx,000 a bit further. It is great the proposed base salary falls within the range I had given, based on my experience and the responsibilities of the role. Reflecting on the timelines of next steps we discussed however, I have considered that I will miss the annual bonus and pay review cycle in March at [current employer], should I be in my contractual notice period, and at [Company]. With this in mind, it would be fantastic if the base salary could be requested at £xx+5,000.

Please let me know if this sounds reasonable and [Company] are able to accommodate? I would be very happy to then confirm acceptance and move forward with contracting ASAP, as I am keen to begin contributing to the team as soon as my notice allows.

I would also be happy to discuss alternative options if this request is not feasible.

I look forward to hearing from you. I am available to discuss by Teams or phone if it is easier, too.

Thank you so much again!

Best,

annetheman

Savvy_Sue

I'd suggest you need to establish what the Band 6 means. When I've worked in organisations which had fixed salary points like this, it was rare (as in never happened) for anyone to start anywhere other than at the bottom, unless they were moving from higher up the band.

They might advertise salary £× to £y, but all that meant was that annual payrises might eventually get you to £y.

annetheman

Savvy_Sue said:

I'd suggest you need to establish what the Band 6 means. When I've worked in organisations which had fixed salary points like this, it was rare (as in never happened) for anyone to start anywhere other than at the bottom, unless they were moving from higher up the band.

They might advertise salary £× to £y, but all that meant was that annual payrises might eventually get you to £y.

Unfortunately I don't think I can find out externally what Band 6 means but it does make sense what you say - I think it may work that way also, otherwise there would be too much disparity in peoples' salaries. I imagine they need to try to standardise their offer strategy like this, so they cannot be accused of being unfair to some candidates vs others.

That is why I think it is very much a possibility (I'm betting 75%) the answer will be "no, because we need to leave room for pay increases in the band" or similar.

That being the worst case scenario, I'm okay to at least have tried and no than to have a burning question in the back of my mind.

Thank you!

JReacher1

Savvy_Sue said:

I'd suggest you need to establish what the Band 6 means. When I've worked in organisations which had fixed salary points like this, it was rare (as in never happened) for anyone to start anywhere other than at the bottom, unless they were moving from higher up the band.

They might advertise salary £× to £y, but all that meant was that annual payrises might eventually get you to £y.

Not sure where you worked or when you worked but in my experience this isn't the case.  In the few places I have worked they have had quite broad bands and salaries vary a lot within the bands.  

It is extremely unlikely that all band 6's would have to start at the bottom of the pay range as that would make the company very uncompetitive in the recruitment market. 

By and large new salaries will sit within a band but they won't start at the bottom.  That will be dictated by benchmarking for the role and the candidates experience.

Grumpy_chap

annetheman said:

They have said it's a Band 6 role, which gives me no clues as I don't know what 'band 6' ranges are! 

This can vary greatly between companies.

Say "Band 6" means £10k - £12k.
Some companies that means you can only start at £10k - particularly civil service / NHS.
Other companies are more flexible.  You may be able to research that aspect online somehow.

I have also worked for companies where the "Band" had no bounds for salary, or such a wide salary bound as to be meaningless, but it set the "package" part of the position - level of healthcare, pension percent, car etc.

JReacher1 said:

If you want £3k more than go in at £5k and see what they say.  I spend a lot of time recruiting people and you should never take the first offer. They will always have at least one higher offer and at the end of the day they’ll just tell you if you are being unreasonable. At this point they won’t be thinking about switching to another candidate. 

It’s very rare for a candidate to accept the first financial offer they are given. 

That is interesting to hear that view and experience.  I am surprised.

Whenever I have been looking for a new job, I say what my salary expectation is at interview.
Unlike the OP, I never set a salary range that I am seeking, just a single figure that I expect to be bettered with the offer.
I get the job offer at £x and either accept or decline, on the basis that if the recruiter wants me in their team it is up to them to make me an attractive offer and if the offer is not attractive then the recruiter really couldn't care less.

My wife takes a different approach to me, much more similar to the OP and asks for a salary in a range.
The offer only ever comes in at the bottom of the range.
My wife has attempted to negotiate and no offer has ever been increased, always expressed "take it or leave it" but never withdrawn on the basis of the discussion.

There is clearly no right or wrong on this, it is a matter of risk assessment for the OP.  
If they were to lose this new role at £10k uplift on current role, could they get an alternative roles with similar uplift relatively easily, or is the role already at a very competitive position?
It also very much depends on the company and how their "banding" system works.

Congratulations to the OP on securing a new job offer with a big uplift, and good luck in deciding how to proceed and the outcome of any discussions.
Please do report back with your success.

Silverspeed

I am glad you finally decided to start your negotiation. If you are not completely happy with the offer, you shouldn`t accept it.
Certainly, there are many other factors that influence the final decision. 

It`s not like I did dozens of negotiations or anything... I am working for a company as an agency worker right now. It is not a skilful job, but I have 5 years of experience in it and always go beyond my role.  I already had my first interview ( knowing how much potentially I will earn as a permanent member). I already decided, once I am successful on the second interview, I would ask a bit more. 

I wish you luck and most importantly bravery. Many people would chicken out. Be brave and go for it


Update:
I just realised your question wasn`t about negotiating or not. Sorry, my comment was absolutely useless. 
So I already started my negotiation letter which includes all the skills that I bring to the company, my results as a temporary worker and what more I can offer. 
Reading your letter, it feels ready to send
Congratulations on receiving an offer, and good luck negotiating. 

annetheman

To give a bit more context - this is private sector large multinational in a fairly senior-ish (global Associate Director) role - I currently work in another multinational in the same sector and here the 'bands' are A, B, C, D etc and vary hugely - as far as I know (inside intel) there can be >£15k difference between one Associate Director with MBBS/PhD and 15 years' experience and another with a BSc with 7 years. Hence I gave that size range. Obviously each company will differ.

The recruiter explained Band 6 to me in terms of benefits only - Bands 1-6 get some extra share benefits etc (Bands >7 have basic shares only) and at the top bands 1-3, SVP-level I would guess, there are some additional healthcare options free for family etc. 

So I have had some really helpful responses in here and now I do have a bit more hope, albeit tiny, there might be room for negotiation! Thank you for stopping me from being too chicken to try... I will hopefully report back by the end of next week... 

TELLIT01

Did you inform the potential new employer of your current salary at any point?  If so it may simply come across as greedy when you will effectively be saying that a £10k increase in pay isn't enough.  Just a thought.

annetheman

TELLIT01 said:

Did you inform the potential new employer of your current salary at any point?  If so it may simply come across as greedy when you will effectively be saying that a £10k increase in pay isn't enough.  Just a thought.

Yes, I told them by basic salary but I would be surprised if they tried to make any kind of comparison because the jobs are different. If I was going from a comparable role to another, I would agree there's a risk.

What makes it hard to guage is this is definitely not a lateral move; going from manager to associate director, there will obviously be an increase (it is like moving from Band E to G in my company) - the question is how much and given my research, the range I gave is about right; fingers crossed as I've scheduled to send!