Voluntary Class 2 contributions, lived abroad for decades, no Gov gateway ID

ckxion

I know this is all much too late, but trying to find if there is a way for my sister and Brother inlaw to top up their UK State pension.
Both aged around 64
Only paid about 7 years Nat Insurance Contributions up to age about 23 (10 needed to get any pension)
Living in Australia since then
They could afford to pay NI contributions back to 2006
They have no Gov Gateway ID
I assume little chance of getting that, getting their pensions forecast and discussing top up with Pensions Service by 5 April.

Given above details could someone confirm that they would be eligible for top up
Can they agree a top up figure which will clearly be every year from 2006 to 2023 without their Gov ID and pension forecast
I understand that as they paid Class3 contributions up to immediately before they left the UK and have been living abroad since then. they may only need to pay class 2 contributions for the missing years - correct?
If amount cannot be agreed can they get a reference from HMRC to make some payment?
I understand that some people have given up trying to speak to the Pensions Service (though too early for UK residents to give up I assume) and have been posting a cheque to HMRC with the amount they believe is correct, with a letter and their Nat Insurance number - intending to sort things out in the future, when Pensions Service are more easily accessible.

I know this is clearly not the best way to approach this, but the small payment of 17 x ~£315 is a relatively small price to pay, with a very big future loss if they do nothing.

If the solution is to send a cheque, is there a way to find a reputable paid adviser to calculate the required payments, before sending a cheque.

Comments please

jem16

ckxion said:

I know this is all much too late, but trying to find if there is a way for my sister and Brother inlaw to top up their UK State pension.
Both aged around 64
Only paid about 7 years Nat Insurance Contributions up to age about 23 (10 needed to get any pension)
Living in Australia since then
They could afford to pay NI contributions back to 2006
They have no Gov Gateway ID
I assume little chance of getting that, getting their pensions forecast and discussing top up with Pensions Service by 5 April.

Given above details could someone confirm that they would be eligible for top up
Can they agree a top up figure which will clearly be every year from 2006 to 2023 without their Gov ID and pension forecast
I understand that as they paid Class3 contributions up to immediately before they left the UK and have been living abroad since then. they may only need to pay class 2 contributions for the missing years - correct?
If amount cannot be agreed can they get a reference from HMRC to make some payment?
I understand that some people have given up trying to speak to the Pensions Service (though too early for UK residents to give up I assume) and have been posting a cheque to HMRC with the amount they believe is correct, with a letter and their Nat Insurance number - intending to sort things out in the future, when Pensions Service are more easily accessible.

I know this is clearly not the best way to approach this, but the small payment of 17 x ~£315 is a relatively small price to pay, with a very big future loss if they do nothing.

If the solution is to send a cheque, is there a way to find a reputable paid adviser to calculate the required payments, before sending a cheque.

Comments please

They are probably going to have to complete from CF83 to be able to pay Class 2 from abroad. As long as the form gets there before 5th April then HMRC will still allow you to pay for those years.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/social-security-abroad-ni38

pinnks

I am pretty sure that having been absent for so long there is unlikely to be much, if any additional pension under the old state pension rules and it is probably a pretty safe bet that they can simply fill all years from 2006/07 onwards, that is, unless adding any of 2006/07 to 2015/16 would given them more than 30 years on their NI record at 5 April 2016.  I am sure others on here can confirm or discount that view.

I am not sure whether the recent changes to the Government Gateway process apply across the world but as I understand it, it is now possible for non residents to get an ID using only a biometric passport.  Again, others on here may know more, but worth investigating as that would give access to the NI record and pension forecast.

In terms of filling years, have they read NI38 Guidance on social security abroad: NI38 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)?  It sets out the criterion for being able to pay voluntary NI at all, and if one meets the criterion, whether it is Class 2 or Class 3.

"You can pay Class 2 National Insurance contributions if you’re employed or self-employed abroad and if you satisfy either of the following conditions:

1. (a) You’ve lived in the UK for a continuous 3-year period at any time before the period for which National Insurance contributions are to be paid, or
   
   (b) Before going abroad, you paid National Insurance:
   
   (i) from April 1975 to give 3 qualifying years, or
   (ii) from April 1975 to give 2 qualifying years and paid 52 National Insurance contributions (of any Class) before 6 April 1975, or
   (iii) from April 1975 to give 1 qualifying year and paid 104 National Insurance contributions (of any Class) before 6 April 1975, or
   (iv) 156 National Insurance contributions (of any Class) before 6 April 1975
   this will be checked when you ask to pay Class 2 National Insurance contributions, and
2. In addition to meeting condition 1(a) or 1(b), you must also, immediately before going abroad, have been ordinarily an employed or self-employed earner in the UK."

If it is Class 3, then it is pretty much only that the employment criterion falls away.

You As a non- resident, one needs to complete form CF83 (at the end of NI38) and submit that to HMRC (absent direct debit bank details if looking at back years).  HMRC have said on their customer forum that if non-residents start that process before 5 April 2023, then their position is protected even if (or should one say when) the process is not concluded before April.  Personally, I would complete the form and add a covering letter along the lines of, "Given the high interest in this issue I have been unable to get through to DWP etc etc but will be seeking to pay as many years as possible for 2006/7 onwards.  I am expecting that I qualify for Class2 (or whatever you decide), so enclose a completed CF83.  I shall of course confirm which years I wish to pay once I have managed to speak with DWP but in the meantime I understand that my position is protected as long as I have started this process before 5 April 2023" 

Whether that would cut the necessary ice, as it were, is not known but it might help.