N244 advice req'd

asp746

would anyone be so kind to check what i've put as a witness statement.

1.  Circs :  got 2  CCJs on consecutive days at workplace carpark.  Excel parking are the company I'm in conflict with.   

What order are you asking the court to make and why?   Set aside CCJ on the basis that I didn't receive paperwork as it was sent to my old address.
  
Witness statement: 

i)Excel did not take reasonable steps to locate me, the 2 x tickets were from Nov 21 and I bought a house in March 20 and my credit file was updated with this new address and a soft credit search would have flagged this up;

ii) As payment is only via online App it asks for contact number and email address.  I have used the carpark in the preceding and prior to the 2 x violations so I would argue there were a further two forms of contact that Excel could have attempted to locate me ie search car registration and my details would have come up;

iii)  the car park is strictly for residents of the XXX so again a reasonable avenue to make an attempt to locate.

I have now paid the CCJs and my file's marked as satisfied.  The impact on me is quite disproportionate which I won't go into here for what amounts to be an oversight of £6 worth of tickets.  I've already paid each CCJ at £267 (£534) and i now have to put up £275 x 2 to attempt to get them removed - i am doing them one at a time incase my bid fails.

I wrote to Excels litigation dept last night and advised of my proposal to proceed to N244 submission and the grounds for doing so but they've not replied today.  I am totally out of my depth.  I've lo with this form but have nothing to lose and feel justified in at least trying.  I looked on regular posters names but it doesn't bring their posts up - not sure if this is a new feature but when I click on coupon mad's name it only brings their badges up and I can't see their posts so can anyone tell me how I can see others threads.   Sorry for longish post and looking to post this form off by the end of the week.  Thanks

B789

The forum software was recently updated but there seem to be a few flaws and one of them is members posts/discussions not showing up in their profile which makes searching this less than useful forum software  somewhat disappointing. You can do a forum search on "CCJ" and "set aside" and put the results as Newest first which will bring up some threads with recent set asides.

However, you in the right place to get assistance. You are 100% likely to get the CCJs set aside as the claims were not served properly.

When you say "paperwork was sent to old address", is that because you didn't update your V5C? Not a fact that will sink your case and, as you mention, especially as the PPC could have made a soft trace to make sure they had the correct address for service.

Please confirm you have read and understand the steps involved in the Newbies thread. The experts will need your assistance when helping you through this process and it is always fairly obvious when someone hasn't read and understood the content of the Newbies thread. You are obviously aware of the process at this stage because of what you have mentioned already.

Can you let us see the original PoC details, suitably redacted, as there have been a few of these claims thrown out completely at set aside hearings due to unsatisfactory PoC from lazy claimants.

KeithP

asp746 said:

I looked on regular posters names but it doesn't bring their posts up - not sure if this is a new feature but when I click on coupon mad's name it only brings their badges up and I can't see their posts so can anyone tell me how I can see others threads.

I don't recognise this.

For example, if I click on your username as shown to the left of your above post...


Then the top left of the returned screen looks like this...


Click on Discussions to see all the threads started by that user, or click on Replies to see all their replies.
The dumb bit is that the forum software doesn't position you at the results list. You'll need to scroll down the page to see the results.

Coupon-mad

I've already paid each CCJ at £267 (£534)

I have now paid the CCJs and my file's marked as satisfied.

Ouch! That's a shame, and a wrong move.

You didn't need to pay them a penny and would have had more leverage if you hadn't, because a Judge might think paying the claims is an admission.  Oh dear.

Also, Excel should NEVER have filed duplicate claims; this caused you extra costs and double the damage to your credit file than one CCJ.  It should have been one claim.

That would have given you a decent argument to set aside both CCJs and consolidate them into one claim which would have stripped off the duplicated fees and you could have defended the case and won it with our help, and paid nothing at all.

And you CAN'T do the set asides one at a time either because the second one will fail the expectation to act promptly. You need to do them both at once.  Sorry.  Both this month, without delay.

Have you tried sending Excel's solicitor a Draft Consent Order?

Given you've paid them the money (and shouldn't have done but I can't change that) you can and should be saying that filing two claims was abusive and caused double damage to your credit rating and exaggerated fees and costs, but to resolve the matter you've paid them both in full without admission and will say no more, if Excel will sign the attached two Consent Orders which will then be filed with the court to wipe both CCJs, due to an old address being used.

An example Consent Order is currently on the thread by @Harvez63

If Excel will sign these then the court fee is £108 (I think) not £275 because you won't need a hearing.

You could even ask Excel to pay one fee and you pay the other...or suggest that they should pay both...given the alternative is 2 x £275 that you will certainly ask the Judge at a hearing to order Excel to pay you back, given their unreasonable conduct.

B789

@KeithP that is not the case as I have just clicked on your profile and i attach a screenshot showing that your "activity" is blank:

Coupon-mad

No, it's further down...

KeithP

B789 said:

@KeithP that is not the case as I have just clicked on your profile and i attach a screenshot showing that your "activity" is blank:

But it wasn't my suggestion to click on "activity".
(Yes, "activity" doesn't seem to do anything and I've asked MSE about that but received no answer.)

When I click on Replies on your profile and scroll down the page I see a list like this...

But we seem to be drifting a bit off topic.  

B789

Coupon-mad said:

No, it's further down...

That bit didn't show up due to some page rendering issue with Safari. If I wait for a minute or so, it does eventually appear. Doesn't say a lot for the forum software used though.

asp746

Coupon-mad said:

I've already paid each CCJ at £267 (£534)

I have now paid the CCJs and my file's marked as satisfied.

Ouch! That's a shame, and a wrong move.

You didn't need to pay them a penny and would have had more leverage if you hadn't, because a Judge might think paying the claims is an admission.  Oh dear.

Also, Excel should NEVER have filed duplicate claims; this caused you extra costs and double the damage to your credit file than one CCJ.  It should have been one claim.

That would have given you a decent argument to set aside both CCJs and consolidate them into one claim which would have stripped off the duplicated fees and you could have defended the case and won it with our help, and paid nothing at all.

And you CAN'T do the set asides one at a time either because the second one will fail the expectation to act promptly. You need to do them both at once.  Sorry.  Both this month, without delay.

Have you tried sending Excel's solicitor a Draft Consent Order?

Given you've paid them the money (and shouldn't have done but I can't change that) you can and should be saying that filing two claims was abusive and caused double damage to your credit rating and exaggerated fees and costs, but to resolve the matter you've paid them both in full without admission and will say no more, if Excel will sign the attached two Consent Orders which will then be filed with the court to wipe both CCJs, due to an old address being used.

An example Consent Order is currently on the thread by @Harvez63

If Excel will sign these then the court fee is £108 (I think) not £275 because you won't need a hearing.

You could even ask Excel to pay one fee and you pay the other...or suggest that they should pay both...given the alternative is 2 x £275 that you will certainly ask the Judge at a hearing to order Excel to pay you back, given their unreasonable conduct.

 thanks CM and others, i will compose a letter asap and post here for overview before i ping it off to Excel's solicitor.  I was going to do the N244 separately incase the first one got rejected thereby saving me £275 but I hear what you're saying.  

asp746

here's my 1st draft to the Litagators at Excel parking: Dear Sirs

I am writing in reference to two CCJs obtained against me by yourselves (representing Excel Parking Services LTD) on XXXXXXXX. The case reference is: XXXXXXXXX.

It is filed under an old address I have not resided in since March 2020. This old address is XXXXXXX. All statutory agencies including DVLA were notified of my address change however it appears the V5 was one document that was omitted in error.

It seems to be clear that no basic trace was performed in order to serve at my correct address which is contrary to the rule of service CPR 6.9. 

Furthermore the BPA Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice states:

“32.1b Before serving a Letter Before Claim and prior to the issue of proceedings, Operators must, if no responses have been received to the NTD/NTK/reminder letters, take reasonable endeavours to ensure that the person being written to is the correct party.”  A new mortgage and address in April 2020 would have been visible on my credit file that I believe had you checked would have not resulted in such draconian action. 

I require that you contact the court and pay the fee required to set aside the CCJ that your negligence has caused and/or to file a suitable Consent Order to remove the CCJ forthwith and for the improperly served claim to be dismissed.

This is in accordance with your duty to pay regard to the Overriding Objective and the proposed remedy is reasonable and has value to your client, because the alternative route I will be forced to seek is as follows:

If no acceptable reply is received from you by xx/xx/xxxx, I shall file a N244 set aside application 'without consent' and will seek to claim the £275 fee. Further, I will pursue my additional costs for research, paperwork and court process preparation and having to take a day off work for the court hearing.  Indemnity costs will be based upon the fact of your client's indisputably unreasonable conduct and data abuse.

Take note that the longer this situation persists, the more impact it has on me, and potentially on my employment and reputation.  This situation is untenable and I expect immediate action to rectify the position. I work as a xxxxxxx and my hourly rate, should I have to resort to filing the N244, is £xx and I shall seek all my costs and time - and if need be will file a counterclaim during the process - if you fail to properly address this immediately.

I expect a substantive response and swift action to remedy this at no cost to me.

Coupon-mad

That's a good start...but you should state BOTH claim refs and use the plural 'CCJs' and talk about 2x £275 and 2x £108.  This is about both claims and two applications.

And you are quoting the wrong CoP. EXCEL are not in the BPA, they're in the IPC. Quote the IPC CoP.

You also need to add near the start that you paid them both in a panic (a knee-jerk reaction to try to sort out the mess) but this was not an admission of liability.

However, you are a reasonable person and in order to resolve the matter and in view of the fact that Excel have been paid an inflated £xxx that no Judge would have awarded they are very much in profit.  As such, you have acted in good faith and propose that there is a way forward that will save Excel now losing that money by being liable for 2 x £275 for two set aside application fees that you will otherwise ask a Judge to order Excel to pay back to you for their vexatious and wholly unreasonable conduct.

Then spell out what that conduct was:

(a). wrong address, not bothering to do the necessary soft trace and thus their actions/inaction and negligent handling of old, unchecked address data caused both claims to be improperly served and not received;

(b) search the forum for Henderson detached duplicate claims and copy the appropriate wording about the abusive litigation conduct of filing two claims and causing twice the damage and doubling up the cost to the consumer of sorting the mess out.

Finally, pretty sure I suggested you hurry things along by providing a Draft Consent Order like the one on the thread by @Harvez63.  You haven't.  That's a mistake.

See the latest one here on his thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79854649/#Comment_79854649

Notice something?

Yep, under the circumstances the solicitor has confirmed that PPC will pay the £275 fee...in his case they've finally agreed, after he insisted!

In your case you need to draft one that says the Claimant do pay 2x £108 being the application fees to set aside two CCJs with the consent order being authorised by the court without a hearing.