Worried about clauses in settlement agreement - what to do?

SChitmehard

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Employer will pay £2500 for legal advice but solicitor is useless and just keeps on saying looks OK even though there were a lot of terms that were totally one-sided which the employers solicitor agreed to take out. She's a NWNF solicitor that took on the case but did the minimum and seems just to to be in it to get her 35% ASAP for next to no work.

Why on earth use a NWNF solicitor if the employer is prepared to pay for decent advice on the settlement agreement? If you're really bothered by the clauses, pay for another solicitor to do the job on a proper footing - i.e. paid to do the job of reviewing the settlement agreement.

My friend hired a NWNF employment solicitor who took on the case as the solicitor saw that the potential outcome could be £50-100k (pretty complex and long running case - discrimination/pay) or maybe a settlement at £25k upwards so a nice little earner for her. She did next to no work, usually wouldn't answer his questions when he emails her about the case, in fact the case has now been going on for just under a year and they have not met up even ONCE and there's only been 2-3 phone calls between them in all that time, it's all via a seldom email. I think she mucked up his case more than helped to be honest!

So the same NWNF solicitor is still involved in the case and when she found out that the employer was likely to take it all the way to court, she negotiated a £8k settlement!! To top it off the employer can get the money back if they claim/show that the agreement has been breached and get my friend to pay all their legal costs/damages under the clauses above! 

If he fires his NWNF solicitor he will have to pay her for the (next to no) work she has done so far (approx £2k). She hasn't given him any advice on what the agreement means or explained it in any way, she just says it is OK to sign even the first draft which was total nonsense. She is just interested in getting her cut ASAP, it'll be my friend who will be stuck with the agreement and the consequences. Seems like he's been done up like a kipper.. 

SChitmehard

Undervalued said:

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Employer will pay £2500 for legal advice but solicitor is useless and just keeps on saying looks OK even though there were a lot of terms that were totally one-sided which the employers solicitor agreed to take out. She's a NWNF solicitor that took on the case but did the minimum and seems just to to be in it to get her 35% ASAP for next to no work.

Why on earth use a NWNF solicitor if the employer is prepared to pay for decent advice on the settlement agreement? If you're really bothered by the clauses, pay for another solicitor to do the job on a proper footing - i.e. paid to do the job of reviewing the settlement agreement.

I read this thread (and I seem to remember some others) to suggest that the NWNF solicitor has negotiated this settlement offer. But I may be wrong. If they have they will be entitled to a very significant chunk of the £8K settlement.

£2500 is a high contribution from an employer for the minimum legal advice needed to make a settlement agreement binding. I almost wondered if that should have read £250 although that would be low these days!

If the OP's solicitor has negotiated this SA then the contract may prevent the OP seeking advice elsewhere. If the employer is offering £2500 then it is not really the OP's problem apart from the fact he seems to think the solicitor is not much good!

OP - I obviously know nothing of the rights and wrong of your claim. The average employment tribunal payout is, AFAIK, still less than that although obviously some claims are worth vastly more. If you are on a NWNF agreement what are the implications if you turn this offer down?

As I (and others) have said the terms you are concerned about seem fairly standard. Unless you have an exceptional case you are unlikely to get many, if any, significant changes.

See my above reply to Marcon's post. Case involves discrimination & pay.

 NWNF solicitor took on the case just under a year go on a NWNF basis and employer is willing to pay NWNF solicitor costs £2500 to conclude - employer is a multi-million business with thousands of employees so can afford to pay out NWNF solicitors costs. 

The employers solicitor has drafted the agreement and my friends NWNF solicitor just keeps on saying its OK to sign, she hasn't phoned him, nor given him any advice on what the agreement means nor explained in any way what the implications of each term of the agreement are. I've told him what changes to ask for and the employers solicitor has made a few changes but not removed the above wording about refund of settlement money. His NWNF solicitor just says it is OK to sign every time, even the first draft which was total nonsense and to every subsequent draft that's been sent out. I've kind of explained to him what the terms of the agreement mean and that I would be very unhappy with signing it with the above clauses due to the risks ( of having to return settlement money back to employer and pay their legal costs.damages etc). 

I've seen a couple of  settlement agreements in my time and NONE of them had the above phrases, especially the one about giving the settlement money back in full or the one about covering employers legal costs!! 

I haven't read his NWNF agreement, but I think it was just the standard stuff. But saying that she is prepared to accept £2500 for the "work" she has done so far so it isn't much if he fired her. She is just interested in getting her cut now ASAP, it'll be my friend who will be stuck with the agreement and the consequences. 

So his options seem to be:

a:) accept the rubbish agreement with the refund of settlement wording.

b:) stick to his guns and refuse to sign - this may result in the NWNF solicitor pulling out and asking him for money which he would not have to pay as she pulled out of the NWNF agreement.

c:) Fire and Pay off the NWNF solicitor himself and find someone else who would be paid by the employer for the agreement negotiation.

d:) If employer refuses to change the agreement then he could continue the case against them (may be with the current NWNF solicitor if she sticks with him or with a new one which he will have to pay himself)

Any other options??

Undervalued

SChitmehard said:

Undervalued said:

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Employer will pay £2500 for legal advice but solicitor is useless and just keeps on saying looks OK even though there were a lot of terms that were totally one-sided which the employers solicitor agreed to take out. She's a NWNF solicitor that took on the case but did the minimum and seems just to to be in it to get her 35% ASAP for next to no work.

Why on earth use a NWNF solicitor if the employer is prepared to pay for decent advice on the settlement agreement? If you're really bothered by the clauses, pay for another solicitor to do the job on a proper footing - i.e. paid to do the job of reviewing the settlement agreement.

I read this thread (and I seem to remember some others) to suggest that the NWNF solicitor has negotiated this settlement offer. But I may be wrong. If they have they will be entitled to a very significant chunk of the £8K settlement.

£2500 is a high contribution from an employer for the minimum legal advice needed to make a settlement agreement binding. I almost wondered if that should have read £250 although that would be low these days!

If the OP's solicitor has negotiated this SA then the contract may prevent the OP seeking advice elsewhere. If the employer is offering £2500 then it is not really the OP's problem apart from the fact he seems to think the solicitor is not much good!

OP - I obviously know nothing of the rights and wrong of your claim. The average employment tribunal payout is, AFAIK, still less than that although obviously some claims are worth vastly more. If you are on a NWNF agreement what are the implications if you turn this offer down?

As I (and others) have said the terms you are concerned about seem fairly standard. Unless you have an exceptional case you are unlikely to get many, if any, significant changes.

See my above reply to Marcon's post. Case involves discrimination & pay.

 NWNF solicitor took on the case just under a year go on a NWNF basis and employer is willing to pay NWNF solicitor costs £2500 to conclude - employer is a multi-million business with thousands of employees so can afford to pay out NWNF solicitors costs. 

The employers solicitor has drafted the agreement and my friends NWNF solicitor just keeps on saying its OK to sign, she hasn't phoned him, nor given him any advice on what the agreement means nor explained in any way what the implications of each term of the agreement are. I've told him what changes to ask for and the employers solicitor has made a few changes but not removed the above wording about refund of settlement money. His NWNF solicitor just says it is OK to sign every time, even the first draft which was total nonsense and to every subsequent draft that's been sent out. I've kind of explained to him what the terms of the agreement mean and that I would be very unhappy with signing it with the above clauses due to the risks ( of having to return settlement money back to employer and pay their legal costs.damages etc). 

I've seen a couple of  settlement agreements in my time and NONE of them had the above phrases, especially the one about giving the settlement money back in full or the one about covering employers legal costs!! 

I haven't read his NWNF agreement, but I think it was just the standard stuff. But saying that she is prepared to accept £2500 for the "work" she has done so far so it isn't much if he fired her. She is just interested in getting her cut now ASAP, it'll be my friend who will be stuck with the agreement and the consequences. 

So his options seem to be:

a:) accept the rubbish agreement with the refund of settlement wording.

b:) stick to his guns and refuse to sign - this may result in the NWNF solicitor pulling out and asking him for money which he would not have to pay as she pulled out of the NWNF agreement.

c:) Fire and Pay off the NWNF solicitor himself and find someone else who would be paid by the employer for the agreement negotiation.

d:) If employer refuses to change the agreement then he could continue the case against them (may be with the current NWNF solicitor if she sticks with him or with a new one which he will have to pay himself)

Any other options??

This is rapidly becoming pointless as you are not listening to anything you don't want to hear.

About five people on here (plus the "friends" solicitor) have indicated that the terms in the agreement are fairly standard. These agreements, certainly at this sort of level, are largely "off the shelf" and not written from the ground up. As I have said, anything can be negotiated if you are in a strong enough position. On the face of it, your "friend" is not.

I cannot comment on the merits or otherwise of your "friends" case. Given that the solicitor is working on a percentage, if she felt that a significantly larger settlement could be reached in a cost effective way she would have tried. It may be that having heard the employer's side of the story she considers your "friends" case to be quite weak, I simply don't know.

The fact that there is a settlement on the table at all doesn't in any way prove that your "friend" has a winnable case. They may or may not do. It will cost the employer £8K or more in legal costs if this goes to tribunal, on top of what they have already spent, plus a load of hassle so they may just be paying "go away" money on a case they could easily win.

The whole point of a settlement agreement is those two words. The parties are agreeing to settle a dispute, once and for all, without admission of any liability. It is hardly surprising therefore that the employer will want it written, as far as the law allows, to deter / prevent any attempt to reopen the matter. They used to be called compromise agreements, which is some ways was a better description. The parties have compromised rather than going to court to let somebody else (a judge) decide for them. The problem is that a compromise, almost be definition, leaves nobody completely happy!

So, your "friends" options are to either accept and end the matter or pay for further legal advice elsewhere.

JCS1

SChitmehard said:

Jaybee_16 said:

Does your friend have an agreed reference as part of the settlement agreement?

They at first refused to give one at all.  But in his type of job he NEEDS a personal reference about his work ethic/standard etc. and they have refused point blank to provide this. Now, after a lot of negotiation they said they will only give start/end date and job title which is not good really but better than nothing.

There is no legal right to a detailed reference

GingerTim

SChitmehard said:

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Employer will pay £2500 for legal advice but solicitor is useless and just keeps on saying looks OK even though there were a lot of terms that were totally one-sided which the employers solicitor agreed to take out. She's a NWNF solicitor that took on the case but did the minimum and seems just to to be in it to get her 35% ASAP for next to no work.

Why on earth use a NWNF solicitor if the employer is prepared to pay for decent advice on the settlement agreement? If you're really bothered by the clauses, pay for another solicitor to do the job on a proper footing - i.e. paid to do the job of reviewing the settlement agreement.

My friend hired a NWNF employment solicitor who took on the case as the solicitor saw that the potential outcome could be £50-100k (pretty complex and long running case - discrimination/pay) or maybe a settlement at £25k upwards so a nice little earner for her. She did next to no work, usually wouldn't answer his questions when he emails her about the case, in fact the case has now been going on for just under a year and they have not met up even ONCE and there's only been 2-3 phone calls between them in all that time, it's all via a seldom email. I think she mucked up his case more than helped to be honest!

So the same NWNF solicitor is still involved in the case and when she found out that the employer was likely to take it all the way to court, she negotiated a £8k settlement!! To top it off the employer can get the money back if they claim/show that the agreement has been breached and get my friend to pay all their legal costs/damages under the clauses above! 

If he fires his NWNF solicitor he will have to pay her for the (next to no) work she has done so far (approx £2k). She hasn't given him any advice on what the agreement means or explained it in any way, she just says it is OK to sign even the first draft which was total nonsense. She is just interested in getting her cut ASAP, it'll be my friend who will be stuck with the agreement and the consequences. Seems like he's been done up like a kipper.. 

If a NWNF solicitor isn't, in your view, putting in the effort for the reward of a percentage of a supposedly high value case of undeniable merit, why do you think that might be? Perhaps after working on the case she has decided that this is the best that could be achieved?

If you think different then alternative legal representation will be required, though you may find their view to be similarly disappointing to you. 

Marcon

JCS1 said:

SChitmehard said:

Jaybee_16 said:

Does your friend have an agreed reference as part of the settlement agreement?

They at first refused to give one at all.  But in his type of job he NEEDS a personal reference about his work ethic/standard etc. and they have refused point blank to provide this. Now, after a lot of negotiation they said they will only give start/end date and job title which is not good really but better than nothing.

There is no legal right to a detailed reference

There can be in certain circumstances e.g. a regulatory reference.

Marcon

SChitmehard said:

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Employer will pay £2500 for legal advice but solicitor is useless and just keeps on saying looks OK even though there were a lot of terms that were totally one-sided which the employers solicitor agreed to take out. She's a NWNF solicitor that took on the case but did the minimum and seems just to to be in it to get her 35% ASAP for next to no work.

Why on earth use a NWNF solicitor if the employer is prepared to pay for decent advice on the settlement agreement? If you're really bothered by the clauses, pay for another solicitor to do the job on a proper footing - i.e. paid to do the job of reviewing the settlement agreement.

My friend hired a NWNF employment solicitor who took on the case as the solicitor saw that the potential outcome could be £50-100k (pretty complex and long running case - discrimination/pay) or maybe a settlement at £25k upwards so a nice little earner for her. She did next to no work, usually wouldn't answer his questions when he emails her about the case, in fact the case has now been going on for just under a year and they have not met up even ONCE and there's only been 2-3 phone calls between them in all that time, it's all via a seldom email. I think she mucked up his case more than helped to be honest!

So the same NWNF solicitor is still involved in the case and when she found out that the employer was likely to take it all the way to court, she negotiated a £8k settlement!! To top it off the employer can get the money back if they claim/show that the agreement has been breached and get my friend to pay all their legal costs/damages under the clauses above! 

If he fires his NWNF solicitor he will have to pay her for the (next to no) work she has done so far (approx £2k). She hasn't given him any advice on what the agreement means or explained it in any way, she just says it is OK to sign even the first draft which was total nonsense. She is just interested in getting her cut ASAP, it'll be my friend who will be stuck with the agreement and the consequences. Seems like he's been done up like a kipper.. 

Why do you think you know better than the solicitor? Looking at your previous threads (e.g. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6331528/what-to-do-about-references-and-reason-for-leaving-after-ambushed-with-dismissal/p1) there's no evidence you have any knowledge or training in this area, and you have consistently ignored very sensible comments/suggestions that you talk to ACAS.

Undervalued

Marcon said:

JCS1 said:

SChitmehard said:

Jaybee_16 said:

Does your friend have an agreed reference as part of the settlement agreement?

They at first refused to give one at all.  But in his type of job he NEEDS a personal reference about his work ethic/standard etc. and they have refused point blank to provide this. Now, after a lot of negotiation they said they will only give start/end date and job title which is not good really but better than nothing.

There is no legal right to a detailed reference

There can be in certain circumstances e.g. a regulatory reference.

If this were one of the few occupations where a particular form of reference was legally required then the employer wouldn't be able to rely on a clause in a settlement agreement to get out of providing one.

SChitmehard

Undervalued said:

SChitmehard said:

Undervalued said:

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Undervalued said:

tizerbelle said:

Bog standard clauses.  Very easy to avoid, just don't break the terms of the agreement i.e. don't raise an employment tribunal claim against the company, don't talk about the agreement, don't go bitching about the employer on social media etc etc.  The employer can't just make up stuff to take you to court for breaching it, they would have to have evidence that you did and then they would have to win the court case to be able to enforce it.   

Is your friend not getting a solicitor to review the agreement for him?  You can ask the employer to pay towards the costs of this - they don't have to and they may only pay part of the cost but for the agreement to be valid, your friend does need to have independent legal advice.

Indeed.

As tizerbelle says, fairly standard clauses that you would find in the majority of settlement agreements.

Obviously if your "friend" is in a strong enough bargaining position they may be able to get some or all of the clauses amended or deleted before they sign. However that would be unusual. If the employer won't compromise then the options are to either accept or have their day in court! If they win in court / tribunal they won't be bound by any confidentiality agreements etc and can tell the whole world what happened (as long as it is true)!

For the agreement to be valid the "friend" must receive legal advice from either a solicitor or a specially trained trades union rep. It is normal (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay just enough for the solicitor to do the bear minimum the law requires. Further legal advice and negotiating would normally be at the employee's expense.

Employer will pay £2500 for legal advice but solicitor is useless and just keeps on saying looks OK even though there were a lot of terms that were totally one-sided which the employers solicitor agreed to take out. She's a NWNF solicitor that took on the case but did the minimum and seems just to to be in it to get her 35% ASAP for next to no work.

Why on earth use a NWNF solicitor if the employer is prepared to pay for decent advice on the settlement agreement? If you're really bothered by the clauses, pay for another solicitor to do the job on a proper footing - i.e. paid to do the job of reviewing the settlement agreement.

I read this thread (and I seem to remember some others) to suggest that the NWNF solicitor has negotiated this settlement offer. But I may be wrong. If they have they will be entitled to a very significant chunk of the £8K settlement.

£2500 is a high contribution from an employer for the minimum legal advice needed to make a settlement agreement binding. I almost wondered if that should have read £250 although that would be low these days!

If the OP's solicitor has negotiated this SA then the contract may prevent the OP seeking advice elsewhere. If the employer is offering £2500 then it is not really the OP's problem apart from the fact he seems to think the solicitor is not much good!

OP - I obviously know nothing of the rights and wrong of your claim. The average employment tribunal payout is, AFAIK, still less than that although obviously some claims are worth vastly more. If you are on a NWNF agreement what are the implications if you turn this offer down?

As I (and others) have said the terms you are concerned about seem fairly standard. Unless you have an exceptional case you are unlikely to get many, if any, significant changes.

See my above reply to Marcon's post. Case involves discrimination & pay.

 NWNF solicitor took on the case just under a year go on a NWNF basis and employer is willing to pay NWNF solicitor costs £2500 to conclude - employer is a multi-million business with thousands of employees so can afford to pay out NWNF solicitors costs. 

The employers solicitor has drafted the agreement and my friends NWNF solicitor just keeps on saying its OK to sign, she hasn't phoned him, nor given him any advice on what the agreement means nor explained in any way what the implications of each term of the agreement are. I've told him what changes to ask for and the employers solicitor has made a few changes but not removed the above wording about refund of settlement money. His NWNF solicitor just says it is OK to sign every time, even the first draft which was total nonsense and to every subsequent draft that's been sent out. I've kind of explained to him what the terms of the agreement mean and that I would be very unhappy with signing it with the above clauses due to the risks ( of having to return settlement money back to employer and pay their legal costs.damages etc). 

I've seen a couple of  settlement agreements in my time and NONE of them had the above phrases, especially the one about giving the settlement money back in full or the one about covering employers legal costs!! 

I haven't read his NWNF agreement, but I think it was just the standard stuff. But saying that she is prepared to accept £2500 for the "work" she has done so far so it isn't much if he fired her. She is just interested in getting her cut now ASAP, it'll be my friend who will be stuck with the agreement and the consequences. 

So his options seem to be:

a:) accept the rubbish agreement with the refund of settlement wording.

b:) stick to his guns and refuse to sign - this may result in the NWNF solicitor pulling out and asking him for money which he would not have to pay as she pulled out of the NWNF agreement.

c:) Fire and Pay off the NWNF solicitor himself and find someone else who would be paid by the employer for the agreement negotiation.

d:) If employer refuses to change the agreement then he could continue the case against them (may be with the current NWNF solicitor if she sticks with him or with a new one which he will have to pay himself)

Any other options??

This is rapidly becoming pointless as you are not listening to anything you don't want to hear.

About five people on here (plus the "friends" solicitor) have indicated that the terms in the agreement are fairly standard. These agreements, certainly at this sort of level, are largely "off the shelf" and not written from the ground up. As I have said, anything can be negotiated if you are in a strong enough position. On the face of it, your "friend" is not.

I cannot comment on the merits or otherwise of your "friends" case. Given that the solicitor is working on a percentage, if she felt that a significantly larger settlement could be reached in a cost effective way she would have tried. It may be that having heard the employer's side of the story she considers your "friends" case to be quite weak, I simply don't know.

The fact that there is a settlement on the table at all doesn't in any way prove that your "friend" has a winnable case. They may or may not do. It will cost the employer £8K or more in legal costs if this goes to tribunal, on top of what they have already spent, plus a load of hassle so they may just be paying "go away" money on a case they could easily win.

The whole point of a settlement agreement is those two words. The parties are agreeing to settle a dispute, once and for all, without admission of any liability. It is hardly surprising therefore that the employer will want it written, as far as the law allows, to deter / prevent any attempt to reopen the matter. They used to be called compromise agreements, which is some ways was a better description. The parties have compromised rather than going to court to let somebody else (a judge) decide for them. The problem is that a compromise, almost be definition, leaves nobody completely happy!

So, your "friends" options are to either accept and end the matter or pay for further legal advice elsewhere.

It is NOT standard to have the refund phrase //// like I said I have seen 2 settlement agreements and neither had 1.3 clause to refund money to employer!

True that just because they are willing to settle doesn't prove anything and they will pay money for you to go away. The hearing is listed for 11 days = fairly complex so seems like NWNF solicitor can't be bothered as if they win £50k, after tax etc she will get maybe £12k. So probably better from NWNF solicitors point of view to just settle, and collect the £2k for next to no work she did. I think she was hoping for more as settlement and a bigger chunk of the slice for her, but the employers has not backed down like she probably hoped so she's willing to cut her loses rather than do the work that a trial lasting 11 days will take.

SChitmehard

JCS1 said:

SChitmehard said:

Jaybee_16 said:

Does your friend have an agreed reference as part of the settlement agreement?

They at first refused to give one at all.  But in his type of job he NEEDS a personal reference about his work ethic/standard etc. and they have refused point blank to provide this. Now, after a lot of negotiation they said they will only give start/end date and job title which is not good really but better than nothing.

There is no legal right to a detailed reference

No right to a reference at all except in a few cases. In most jobs it's purely goodwill.

But if you were to have a minimum reference clause, who would you ask to do it for you as part of the settlement agreement? The ex-manager that you have put in a ET case against or from HR? If HR will it not look weird?