Solar panels- advice needed

Louisestella

I've managed to obtain some quotes for solar panels and a battery. I typically use around 2600 kWh/year, no EV at the moment but this can change at some point. I would greatly appreciate advice on whether the quote I'm considering is reasonable (as it seems quite pricey to me) and whether solar installation makes sense in my case as I'm a total newbie to all this. This is what I received:

Equipment
11x Tier 1 390W all-black panel (11 x 390 W panels giving a system size of 4.29 kW, to be fitted on Roof 1 & Roof 2.)
GivEnergy Hybrid inverter with 5.2
kWh battery (5.2 kWh usable)
MCS system registration
HIES insurance-backed guarantee

Installation and scaffolding included

Total: £12104

Estimated annual savings:

1,706.78 kWh 34.00p per kWh £580.31 (Electricity savings)

1,572.00 kWh 5.50p per kWh £86.48 (Export savings)

Details:

Orientation (degrees from South) Elevation1: 65°     Elevation: 115°

Inclination (angle of the roof) 35 degrees

Postcode region 5W (South Wales)

Any advice appreciated!!!

ABrass

At 2,600KWh you're a low power user. As a rule you're at the end of the scale that benefits least from PV. I'd suggest waiting until the prices calm down a bit in a few years.

I think they're overestimating how much of your power you'll use. Even with the battery you'll be exporting a lot during the summer months. Two hours of good sunshine will fill the battery and then you're pumping the rest out to the grid.

Even with the traditional over ambitious savings estimate, and an export rate of 15p (Octopus SEG) you'll take 14 years for it to pay back. And that relies on the current high prices lasting that long. If you dropped to traditional prices of around 20p per KWh then you're talking a long long time.

I got a 6.5kWh battery and 8kW of panels for the same price last year. The quote itself isn't very good.

I'm going to say no, don't do it. Wait a few years for the prices to drop to a more reasonable level or wait for the EV.

Screwdriva

Louisestella said:

I've managed to obtain some quotes for solar panels and a battery. I typically use around 2600 kWh/year, no EV at the moment but this can change at some point. I would greatly appreciate advice on whether the quote I'm considering is reasonable (as it seems quite pricey to me) and whether solar installation makes sense in my case as I'm a total newbie to all this. This is what I received:

Equipment
11x Tier 1 390W all-black panel (11 x 390 W panels giving a system size of 4.29 kW, to be fitted on Roof 1 & Roof 2.)
GivEnergy Hybrid inverter with 5.2
kWh battery (5.2 kWh usable)
MCS system registration
HIES insurance-backed guarantee

Installation and scaffolding included

Total: £12104

You are definitely a low energy user. I wouldn't recommend a battery at this time but I would definitely proceed with a battery-less system.

Said another way, I would suggest deciding on quality panels +  inverter with a long warranty. You can always add a battery at a later stage whenever you purchase the EV (if you drive your future EV sparingly, you could just charge during solar hours using the Zappi EV charger and negate the need for a battery entirely). Cross that bridge later. 

For now for some perspective, my installer offers:

11 X SHARP 410W Panels (4.5 kW System)
11 X SolarEdge Optimizers
  1 X SolarEdge 3680 Inverter

All with 25 year warranty, should cost around £6K installed. 

Slinky

I've had a similar quote in Suffolk as part of a council group buying scheme:

Trina 410W Panels  10   £6,191.00

Total System Size: 4.1kW


Hybrid Inverter Inclusive
Pylon Batteries  4.8 kWh  £4,411.00
Additional Compliant Fuseboard (Consumer Unit)   £165.00
Pigeon Proofing for 10 Panels  £440.00
Scaffolding £150

Total
£11,357.00.This is about double what we were quoted 2 years ago. Ho hum.

This comes with a 10 year product warranty, which seems quite short by comparison with what other people have got.

Got a couple of other companies lined up to quote.

Solarchaser

I would say that is a horrendous quote, and the savings are straight out lies.
Apologies for being more direct than Mr Brass, but thats a disgraceful quote.

I'd expect between £4-6k for the solar alone, and I see no real benefit in batteries for such a low user already.
Even if you do get an EV, it virtually never makes sense to discharge the batteries to charge your EV

The GivEnergy 5.2kwh battery comes in at just under 2k for first Google result:-
https://www.itstechnologies.shop/products/givenergy-5-2kwh-battery-ip65-charge-from-economy-7-octopus-go?variant=39788220776546&currency=GBP&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google+shopping&t=2&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_bieBhDSARIsADU4zLe49dmcImDW8o1OwVwxbIMGRXwrikIDh2aE8onIRz64seyH0PFjtPsaAgKCEALw_wcB

So really 9k should be the max in my opinion. 

Slinky to respond directly to your battery quote, this is a 4.8kwh pylontech battery that anyone can buy
https://voltaconsolar.com/pylontech-us5000-lithium-battery.html
So if you are getting 3 for that price, good on yer, if its 1, id suggest a polite but firm No!
Council group buys should represent collective bargaining to reduce the overall price to the end user, why do these council schemes never seem to do this 🤔 🤨

Louisestella

Thank you very much for all the info. As I thought, my quote is quite pricey for what the potential gain could be. Do you think that installing a system with no battery makes sense in my situation? What is the best way of realistically assessing  potential energy savings?  I have to say that all this solar business gives me a headache.

Louisestella

Screwdriva said:

Louisestella said:

I've managed to obtain some quotes for solar panels and a battery. I typically use around 2600 kWh/year, no EV at the moment but this can change at some point. I would greatly appreciate advice on whether the quote I'm considering is reasonable (as it seems quite pricey to me) and whether solar installation makes sense in my case as I'm a total newbie to all this. This is what I received:

Equipment
11x Tier 1 390W all-black panel (11 x 390 W panels giving a system size of 4.29 kW, to be fitted on Roof 1 & Roof 2.)
GivEnergy Hybrid inverter with 5.2
kWh battery (5.2 kWh usable)
MCS system registration
HIES insurance-backed guarantee

Installation and scaffolding included

Total: £12104

You are definitely a low energy user. I wouldn't recommend a battery at this time but I would definitely proceed with a battery-less system.

Said another way, I would suggest deciding on quality panels +  inverter with a long warranty. You can always add a battery at a later stage whenever you purchase the EV (if you drive your future EV sparingly, you could just charge during solar hours using the Zappi EV charger and negate the need for a battery entirely). Cross that bridge later. 

For now for some perspective, my installer offers:

11 X SHARP 410W Panels (4.5 kW System)
11 X SolarEdge Optimizers
  1 X SolarEdge 3680 Inverter

All with 25 year warranty, should cost around £6K installed. 

Thanks a lot, Screwdriva! £6k sounds much better. Do you think that going for panels with no battery would make a financial sense in my situation? I'm not sure how to realistically calculate any potential energy savings?

Screwdriva

Louisestella said:

Thank you very much for all the info. As I thought, my quote is quite pricey for what the potential gain could be. Do you think that installing a system with no battery makes sense in my situation? What is the best way of realistically assessing  potential energy savings?  I have to say that all this solar business gives me a headache.

I went ahead and estimated based on the information you shared using this calculator 

1) Inputting your actual usage of 2600 kWh and potential solar output of 4500 kWh 
2) Your export will be via Octopus Agile Outgoing
3) Your incoming will be via Octopus Agile Incoming

Looks like an impressive ~5 year return on investment on a system that has a 25 year warranty that's actually worth something! With your consumption/ generation/ export tariff, seems like a battery is entirely unnecessary no matter how you slice it.  

Shortsy

I agree that the quote seems very expensive.

It hadn't occured to me to try the Agile incoming and outgoing on the calculator, so thank you to Screwdriva for the suggestion. It reduces my payback for my panels only quote from 8 years to 6. But there might be a catch, as I had understood that Octopus is not accepting new customers onto one of the Agile tariffs. Also I'm not sure how much risk is involved in the Agile tariffs and whether I would have any warning or way to control periods of high incoming prices.

Screwdriva

Shortsy said:

It hadn't occured to me to try the Agile incoming and outgoing on the calculator, so thank you to Screwdriva for the suggestion. It reduces my payback for my panels only quote from 8 years to 6. But there might be a catch, as I had understood that Octopus is not accepting new customers onto one of the Agile tariffs. Also I'm not sure how much risk is involved in the Agile tariffs and whether I would have any warning or way to control periods of high incoming prices.

You're very welcome! I know of over a dozen new PV homeowners who've switched to Agile Outgoing in the past two months without issue, some in < 5 days. To your point, Octopus had paused Incoming Agile but that's been resumed as well. An investment into Ripple energy should bring your Agile incoming unit cost even lower. 

This tracker should help you determine risk for both tariffs based on the past several months/ years of tariff information. 

Slinky

Had a 'drive by' from a solar company this morning, came back with the following:

Solar PV & Battery storage system.

X10 Canadian Solar Panels (400) 

GIVEnergy Hybrid Inverter (3.6kw)

GIVEnergy Battery storage (9.5kw) (haven't explained why this size)

Bird catchers 

All electrical works

Fully Installed and Commissioned

Scaffolding

Price £13,500

Is making the council scheme seem a little more attractive!

Got another visiting next Wednesday.