My roofer hasn't done his job correctly.

ginger67

HillStreetBlues said:

If it is the chimney issue and they knew and charged for it  then I would say it's a breach of contract.
They should cover reasonable costs that you incurred because of that breach.
What method of payment did you  use?

it was a bank transfer. 

ginger67

born_again said:

ginger67 said:

Thank you everyone for your comments/messages. 
Just some further questions regarding what was mentioned:

1) Source of leak problem - after initially messaging the roofer himself - he went to have a look at the problem. He mentioned the source of the leak was due to a chimney that was not in use that I had paid initially to have it taken care of. On the invoice even it mentions how I have paid extra for this issue to be sorted. 

So the only explanation would be that the roofer made this mistake or simply did not pay enough attention. There was also an instance 2 weeks after the roof was completed where there was a problem with the gutters leaking and they again had to come and fix it - so unfortunately this isn't the first time we've had an issue.

I totally understand mistakes can happen and no job is perfect   - however the problem for me is them not thinking it's their problem to fix this and also fix any damages they have caused as a result (paint chipping inside the property etc). 
There was no tile falling off or anything like that however even then my 10 year guarantee would come into effect as if a roofing job was well done, the tiles shouldn't be easily falling off just a few months after completion. 

2) So I am renting out this property but this is my only property that I'm the landlord for - I am not registered or trading as a business and I don't have any other properties where I have tenants. Renting this house out was just simply because I had to move away from this city as I had a job in another city (I couldn't sell the house at the time as was taking too long and several other reasons) - and being a landlord is not my main job/source of income. Wouldn't this make me a private landlord?  One day, I may live in this property again myself. So does this still not give me consumer rights if I paid for this roofers services for a property that I may live in again myself? Just wondering. 

Thanks again!  @HillStreetBlues@Aylesbury_Duck@Lomast

You would need to check the T/C of this Guarantee. To see exactly what it covers.

So as its a small, family run business - literally all he did was put "10 year guarantee" on the invoice - is he required to have terms and conditions if he states there's a guarantee? Of course I can ask but given how some things about the work and his approach to problems have been very unprofessional, I doubt I'll get much from him.

Aylesbury_Duck

ginger67 said:

born_again said:

ginger67 said:

Thank you everyone for your comments/messages. 
Just some further questions regarding what was mentioned:

1) Source of leak problem - after initially messaging the roofer himself - he went to have a look at the problem. He mentioned the source of the leak was due to a chimney that was not in use that I had paid initially to have it taken care of. On the invoice even it mentions how I have paid extra for this issue to be sorted. 

So the only explanation would be that the roofer made this mistake or simply did not pay enough attention. There was also an instance 2 weeks after the roof was completed where there was a problem with the gutters leaking and they again had to come and fix it - so unfortunately this isn't the first time we've had an issue.

I totally understand mistakes can happen and no job is perfect   - however the problem for me is them not thinking it's their problem to fix this and also fix any damages they have caused as a result (paint chipping inside the property etc). 
There was no tile falling off or anything like that however even then my 10 year guarantee would come into effect as if a roofing job was well done, the tiles shouldn't be easily falling off just a few months after completion. 

2) So I am renting out this property but this is my only property that I'm the landlord for - I am not registered or trading as a business and I don't have any other properties where I have tenants. Renting this house out was just simply because I had to move away from this city as I had a job in another city (I couldn't sell the house at the time as was taking too long and several other reasons) - and being a landlord is not my main job/source of income. Wouldn't this make me a private landlord?  One day, I may live in this property again myself. So does this still not give me consumer rights if I paid for this roofers services for a property that I may live in again myself? Just wondering. 

Thanks again!  @HillStreetBlues@Aylesbury_Duck@Lomast

You would need to check the T/C of this Guarantee. To see exactly what it covers.

So as its a small, family run business - literally all he did was put "10 year guarantee" on the invoice - is he required to have terms and conditions if he states there's a guarantee? Of course I can ask but given how some things about the work and his approach to problems have been very unprofessional, I doubt I'll get much from him.

The trouble with guarantees like this is that they are flaky.  They only last as long as the business is in operation.  It's much better when a trader offers a proper insurance-backed guarantee that survives even if the business closes.

It's one of the reasons people have asked about whether you qualify as a business or a consumer.  If you qualify as a business, you'd be expected to have checked Ts and Cs of the guarantee (or the lack of them) whereas as a consumer, I suspect a court would be more sympathetic to the fact that the guarantee isn't properly spelled out.

ginger67

@Aylesbury_Duck - yes I agree. Unfortunately, I doubt there's set in stone T&C's regarding the guarantee. I wonder because of this, if i could mention it and get some compensation for the damage that's been done to my walls. But then if they disagree and say they won't pay for this...I'm not quite sure what to do.  @Aylesbury_Duck

HillStreetBlues

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I thought the same, but I assume the trader knows OP is a landlord, so OP's attempted use of the CRA might be met with a shrug.

I was thinking if OP makes a CCR 2015 court claim

If roofers first defence is OP isn't a consumer what prove do they have of this.
OP defence if needed is that under current law HMRC my role as a LL is not considered a business therefore consumer law must apply (you have to be one or the other). 


As OP paid by bank transfer if roofers don't play ball, then court is the  only option I see.

born_again

ginger67 said:

born_again said:

ginger67 said:

Thank you everyone for your comments/messages. 
Just some further questions regarding what was mentioned:

1) Source of leak problem - after initially messaging the roofer himself - he went to have a look at the problem. He mentioned the source of the leak was due to a chimney that was not in use that I had paid initially to have it taken care of. On the invoice even it mentions how I have paid extra for this issue to be sorted. 

So the only explanation would be that the roofer made this mistake or simply did not pay enough attention. There was also an instance 2 weeks after the roof was completed where there was a problem with the gutters leaking and they again had to come and fix it - so unfortunately this isn't the first time we've had an issue.

I totally understand mistakes can happen and no job is perfect   - however the problem for me is them not thinking it's their problem to fix this and also fix any damages they have caused as a result (paint chipping inside the property etc). 
There was no tile falling off or anything like that however even then my 10 year guarantee would come into effect as if a roofing job was well done, the tiles shouldn't be easily falling off just a few months after completion. 

2) So I am renting out this property but this is my only property that I'm the landlord for - I am not registered or trading as a business and I don't have any other properties where I have tenants. Renting this house out was just simply because I had to move away from this city as I had a job in another city (I couldn't sell the house at the time as was taking too long and several other reasons) - and being a landlord is not my main job/source of income. Wouldn't this make me a private landlord?  One day, I may live in this property again myself. So does this still not give me consumer rights if I paid for this roofers services for a property that I may live in again myself? Just wondering. 

Thanks again!  @HillStreetBlues@Aylesbury_Duck@Lomast

You would need to check the T/C of this Guarantee. To see exactly what it covers.

So as its a small, family run business - literally all he did was put "10 year guarantee" on the invoice - is he required to have terms and conditions if he states there's a guarantee? Of course I can ask but given how some things about the work and his approach to problems have been very unprofessional, I doubt I'll get much from him.

So in many ways it useless without stating just what it covers.

But if he gives up working, it is totally worthless.

You need to find out just what it does cover & if it is a insurance backed guarantee or just a personal one, covering his work.

plumb1_2

You don’t know what the guarantee covers, it could just cover materials and not labour charges.

Think you got off to a bad start accusing him of bad work, before you knew how the problem arose. 

Be glad he came out in a timely manner and not booked you in for 8 weeks later, under his warranty clause? If there is one ?
Why do you think that you a woman you should be treated any differently than a male person?
Not that I agree any sort of abuse is acceptable.

How much is the cost to repair the damage?
Would it be worth the time and stress to pursue a court claim?
Maybe you can claim off your insurance and they can pursue him( a option I wouldn’t advise unless it’s a large amount).
Being a LL you are going to have all sorts of issues over time, Take it as a learning experience.
I know it can feel you’ve been ripped off, and deflated.
Either way good luck with it.

[Deleted User]

From what we've been told, it's a chimney issue, it's huge leap to assume that the roofer is to blame.
Chimneys can be complex and prone to any number of issues.
It might be worth a general builder or surveyor taking a look to establish what's happening, at the minimum it would offer a second opinion, rather than a roofer who isn't trusted and an owner without technical knowledge.

I can't help feeling that the thread is running away at a tangent.
This talk about blame, consumer status of the property owner, the nature of the roofer's business, warranties, t&c etc all seems very premature, when we haven't even established (other than OPs opinion) that the roof is leaking.

The only issue that seems clear is that 'water has come and damaged the inside walls of the property. The white paint has gone chalky and chipped off and the water has gone through both the upstairs and downstairs rooms'

The problems need to be diagnosed. I'd suggest a surveyor as they are not looking to gain extra work from you.

Once you have established what's happening, you'll be in a far better position to challenge the roofer and hold them to account if needed.

km1500

Letting out a house does not count as being in business by HMRC. The taxation is dealt with under self assesment. The landlord is not required to pay self-employed NICs.

ginger67

So the main reason I initially thought the roofer had lack of care was that there was a previous gutter issue that happened just weeks after completion of the roof (as stated above) - they accepted it was their fault and came and fixed it. And then this new leak had never happened before in this particular area of the roof - Me thinking it was the roofers fault is not a massive conclusion jump (in my opinion) considering the above. However I understand everyone's POV - so thank you for that. 

Is there a specific roof surveyor or just a general property surveyor that needs to be called for this sort of issue? 
I'm wondering how they would test the issue or see if the job's been done okay...
And just wondering if I can get compensation for this survey from either my home insurance or anywhere else.