Self Employment/PAYE status

Four44paw

My boss will only employ people on a self-employed basis so I work on an hourly rate and complete my tax return every yr.
I work for her full-time (35-40 hours pw) and I don't work for anyone else.
I have worked for her for three and a half yrs and am not on a fixed-term contract - I have never received a contract - but the job is ongoing indefinitely.
My understanding from the HMRC website is that I should not be self-employed - I should be on PAYE.
She employs all her her staff this way specifically to avoid having to pay holiday/sick pay and pensions contributions and it means we have no employment rights.
If I ask her if she completed an Employment status determination form there is nothing stopping her from just firing me and replacing me with someone else and start the whole process again so she never gets caught.
I am considering reporting her to HMRC but I am very nervous.
I want the employment rights and protection I am entitled to, but don't want to jeopardise my income.
I feel like I have no protection or rights atm.
Has anyone else been through this?
Any advice gratefully received. 

Undervalued

Four44paw said:

My boss will only employ people on a self-employed basis so I work on an hourly rate and complete my tax return every yr.
I work for her full-time (35-40 hours pw) and I don't work for anyone else.
I have worked for her for three and a half yrs and am not on a fixed-term contract - I have never received a contract - but the job is ongoing indefinitely.
My understanding from the HMRC website is that I should not be self-employed - I should be on PAYE.
She employs all her her staff this way specifically to avoid having to pay holiday/sick pay and pensions contributions and it means we have no employment rights.
If I ask her if she completed an Employment status determination form there is nothing stopping her from just firing me and replacing me with someone else and start the whole process again so she never gets caught.
I am considering reporting her to HMRC but I am very nervous.
I want the employment rights and protection I am entitled to, but don't want to jeopardise my income.
I feel like I have no protection or rights atm.
Has anyone else been through this?
Any advice gratefully received. 

From what you say you almost certainly should be an employee for tax purposes.

The good news is that, as long as you properly declare your income and pay your tax and NI, any comeback for getting this wrong will be on the "employer" and not you.

If you should be an employee then you may still have recourse to an employment tribunal should you be unfairly dismissed. Interestingly, employment tribunals and HMRC can occasionally take a different view on whether somebody is an employee or not. Neither is binding on the other!

You do also need consider the "bottom line". Maybe you are getting a higher hourly rate than an employed person would get? Obviously you need to as you have no entitlement to employee benefits such as paid holiday etc so that has to be factored in.

In the figures add up reasonably (??) I would think quite long and hard before making an issue. Should you be sacked you MAY be able to claim that you were de facto an employee and bring a claim regardless. If you were to "leave" you might be able to bring a claim then for the missing employee benefits. As you say if you make an issue of it now you almost certainly will be shown the door. You MIGHT have some claims, which will take a long while, meanwhile until you find another job you will be without income and maybe not even entitled to JSA.

Frankly, if you are seriously unhappy about it I would find an alternative before rocking the boat.

Grumpy_chap

Four44paw said:

My boss will only employ people on a self-employed basis so I work on an hourly rate and complete my tax return every yr.
I work for her full-time (35-40 hours pw) and I don't work for anyone else.

Employment or self-employment can be more complex than "I only work for X full time". 
Could you work for someone else if you chose to?
Are there others in a similar position to you with the company that do work for others?

Four44paw said:

My understanding from the HMRC website is that I should not be self-employed - I should be on PAYE.

If I ask her if she completed an Employment status determination form there is nothing stopping her from just firing me and replacing me with someone else and start the whole process again so she never gets caught.

HMRC website does tend towards an answer that you are under PAYE.

CEST assessments are only required when there is an intermediary (i.e. you have Ltd Co rather than sole trader) and also if the company is "large" (as defined by the rules).

You may well be correct that asking questions will be the trigger for identifying you as "awkward" and risk your security in the position.

Four44paw said:

She employs all her her staff this way specifically to avoid having to pay holiday/sick pay and pensions contributions and it means we have no employment rights.

I want the employment rights and protection I am entitled to, but don't want to jeopardise my income.
I feel like I have no protection or rights atm.

Does your rate of pay cover the equivalent for holiday / sick pay / pension / NI etc?

You are probably correct that you have no employment rights (that is the case for being self employed sole trader), but you may not be worse off financially.

You have been there 3+ years, so I assume you registered and pay tax / NI as sole trader?

If you were happy with this when it started, why are you not happy with it now?

Marcon

Four44paw said:

My boss will only employ people on a self-employed basis so I work on an hourly rate and complete my tax return every yr.
I work for her full-time (35-40 hours pw) and I don't work for anyone else.
I have worked for her for three and a half yrs and am not on a fixed-term contract - I have never received a contract - but the job is ongoing indefinitely.
My understanding from the HMRC website is that I should not be self-employed - I should be on PAYE.
She employs all her her staff this way specifically to avoid having to pay holiday/sick pay and pensions contributions and it means we have no employment rights.
If I ask her if she completed an Employment status determination form there is nothing stopping her from just firing me and replacing me with someone else and start the whole process again so she never gets caught.
I am considering reporting her to HMRC but I am very nervous.
I want the employment rights and protection I am entitled to, but don't want to jeopardise my income.
I feel like I have no protection or rights atm.
Has anyone else been through this?
Any advice gratefully received. 

... but you do have an income. What outcome do you want? If pressing for your rights to be treated as an employee (and it looks highly likely that's what you are) means losing your job, there's not much to be said for that unless you are sure you can easily find other employment.

baser999

From my old days working in HMRC and subsequent years spent in taxation we were always told to consider the ‘master/ servant’ relationship along with hours worked for each particular client. In OPs case (in the old days at least) they would have most certainly fallen foul of the self-employed criteria, this being the only source of income, full-time hours, and clearly being under the immediate control of that person

penners324

https://www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud

Quite easy to report on hmrc.

The business owner is involved in tax evasion, which is illeagal.

Four44paw

Undervalued said:

You do also need consider the "bottom line". Maybe you are getting a higher hourly rate than an employed person would get? Obviously you need to as you have no entitlement to employee benefits such as paid holiday etc so that has to be factored in.

Frankly, if you are seriously unhappy about it I would find an alternative before rocking the boat.

Grumpy_chap said:

Employment or self-employment can be more complex than "I only work for X full time". 
Could you work for someone else if you chose to?
Are there others in a similar position to you with the company that do work for others?

HMRC website does tend towards an answer that you are under PAYE.

CEST assessments are only required when there is an intermediary (i.e. you have Ltd Co rather than sole trader) and also if the company is "large" (as defined by the rules).

You may well be correct that asking questions will be the trigger for identifying you as "awkward" and risk your security in the position.

Does your rate of pay cover the equivalent for holiday / sick pay / pension / NI etc?

You are probably correct that you have no employment rights (that is the case for being self employed sole trader), but you may not be worse off financially.

You have been there 3+ years, so I assume you registered and pay tax / NI as sole trader?

If you were happy with this when it started, why are you not happy with it now?

The answer to the rate of pay question is no, the pay isn't great at all and certainly doesn't cover holiday/sick pay, and in fact she's paying a colleague less than minimum wage, so, yes, my colleague is working two jobs to make ends meet.
I could work for someone else too - we all could, you could - but I already work full-time hours and I don't want to have to take another job if I can help it, and shouldn't have to.

Our employer does these things because she can get away with it. She thinks that because it is a 'prestigious' magazine we should be grateful to work there, but she is pretty demanding and unscrupulous.

Truth be told, I didn't know that I should be on PAYE and not self-employed when I took the role, I have only found that out subsequently and naively had already accepted on these terms. 

You are right, I could leave, but as I said then she'll just do this to someone else.
There is part of me that wants to ensure that she doesn't treat people this way in the future too.
Especially as she lives quite the high-end lifestyle - sending her children to very expensive educational establishments around the world.

I like my job. I like the magazine. I like my colleagues - it's a very small team.
I would also just like us all to be treated properly, fairly and legally.

However, thanks for your advice. I will dwell on all your comments.