Start Date no contract/unconditional offer

enzolondon1

Just starting a new thread re this my colleague is starting with local council in Feb.They've had an email last week to say all pre employment checks are done and that their start date is as agreed with the director on xx/xx. Due to delays with Xmas etc. They've not had their contract of employment or unconditional offer letter but need to hand in their notice in the next 7 days to start on the required start date.My colleague has chased their HR and been told it should come through shortly.Knowing theyve worked for the council before in same role they know what to expect. I've advised as they've had their start date and it's in writing it should be OK? any thoughts? cheers guys

Marcon

enzolondon1 said:

Just starting a new thread re this my colleague is starting with local council in Feb.They've had an email last week to say all pre employment checks are done and that their start date is as agreed with the director on xx/xx. Due to delays with Xmas etc. They've not had their contract of employment or unconditional offer letter but need to hand in their notice in the next 7 days to start on the required start date.My colleague has chased their HR and been told it should come through shortly.Knowing theyve worked for the council before in same role they know what to expect. I've advised as they've had their start date and it's in writing it should be OK? any thoughts? cheers guys

You've advised...and yet you are now asking here, probably wisely!

If the council wants them to hand in their notice to ensure they can start on a particular date, it would be reasonable to ask the council to email the appropriate documents. Why should your friend take any risk? If something in the contract isn't as anticipated, they will be in a very weak position if they've already resigned.

DullGreyGuy

I switch jobs on average annually... not once have I ever waited for the next contract or unconditional offer to hand in my notice. To be perfectly honest, I find those that do very odd but I know on here at least I am in the minority. 

Personally... I am more than comfortable dealing with a confirmed start date even if dependent on references etc.

In 20 years of doing this there was only once a delay that pushed back my start date by a week but the former contract was more than happy to extend me by a week 

Marcon

DullGreyGuy said:

I switch jobs on average annually... not once have I ever waited for the next contract or unconditional offer to hand in my notice. To be perfectly honest, I find those that do very odd but I know on here at least I am in the minority. 

Personally... I am more than comfortable dealing with a confirmed start date even if dependent on references etc.

In 20 years of doing this there was only once a delay that pushed back my start date by a week but the former contract was more than happy to extend me by a week 

If you're a seasoned job hopper, then you could presumably just hop a bit quicker if something in the contract isn't right!

I have much less faith in bureaucratic organisations like a local council. If you don't get the written docs upfront, you could be waiting a very long time...

TELLIT01

When I started a job with the Civil Service I, in common with all the others who started at the same time, didn't get copies of our contracts until months later.  All I had in advance was the offer of the job, the salary and the start date.  Even the start date was wrong as I advised them at interview of booked holiday dates.

Savvy_Sue

TELLIT01 said:

When I started a job with the Civil Service I, in common with all the others who started at the same time, didn't get copies of our contracts until months later.  All I had in advance was the offer of the job, the salary and the start date.  Even the start date was wrong as I advised them at interview of booked holiday dates.

Yes, but since then the law has (almost certainly) changed and now you are supposed to get a written statement of your T&C no later than your first day. 

(In my more recent history, and until a few years ago, the employer had 8 weeks in which to supply this, but now it's the first day. And AFAIK there is still no effective remedy if it's not forthcoming!)

Undervalued

Savvy_Sue said:

TELLIT01 said:

When I started a job with the Civil Service I, in common with all the others who started at the same time, didn't get copies of our contracts until months later.  All I had in advance was the offer of the job, the salary and the start date.  Even the start date was wrong as I advised them at interview of booked holiday dates.

Yes, but since then the law has (almost certainly) changed and now you are supposed to get a written statement of your T&C no later than your first day. 

(In my more recent history, and until a few years ago, the employer had 8 weeks in which to supply this, but now it's the first day. And AFAIK there is still no effective remedy if it's not forthcoming!)

Indeed, but as you suggest there is still no useful remedy (in most circumstances) if it doesn't happen! So it is something of a moot point!

TELLIT01

Savvy_Sue said:

TELLIT01 said:

When I started a job with the Civil Service I, in common with all the others who started at the same time, didn't get copies of our contracts until months later.  All I had in advance was the offer of the job, the salary and the start date.  Even the start date was wrong as I advised them at interview of booked holiday dates.

Yes, but since then the law has (almost certainly) changed and now you are supposed to get a written statement of your T&C no later than your first day. 

(In my more recent history, and until a few years ago, the employer had 8 weeks in which to supply this, but now it's the first day. And AFAIK there is still no effective remedy if it's not forthcoming!)

Just from interest, do you know when it changed?  I am going back to 2008 when I started.  If the requirement then was 8 weeks they failed miserably even to hit that target.  It was nearer 6 months, despite our office manager chasing on our behalf.

Savvy_Sue

TELLIT01 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

TELLIT01 said:

When I started a job with the Civil Service I, in common with all the others who started at the same time, didn't get copies of our contracts until months later.  All I had in advance was the offer of the job, the salary and the start date.  Even the start date was wrong as I advised them at interview of booked holiday dates.

Yes, but since then the law has (almost certainly) changed and now you are supposed to get a written statement of your T&C no later than your first day. 

(In my more recent history, and until a few years ago, the employer had 8 weeks in which to supply this, but now it's the first day. And AFAIK there is still no effective remedy if it's not forthcoming!)

Just from interest, do you know when it changed?  I am going back to 2008 when I started.  If the requirement then was 8 weeks they failed miserably even to hit that target.  It was nearer 6 months, despite our office manager chasing on our behalf.

I can't remember, I'm afraid. I think it might have been 3 months, reduced to 8 weeks, and my instinct is that the change is more recent than 2008.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-contracts-and-conditions/written-statement-of-employment-particulars

Now that suggests that a comprehensive 'offer letter' is 'enough' for day 1.

hyubh

Marcon said:

DullGreyGuy said:

I switch jobs on average annually... not once have I ever waited for the next contract or unconditional offer to hand in my notice. To be perfectly honest, I find those that do very odd but I know on here at least I am in the minority. 

Personally... I am more than comfortable dealing with a confirmed start date even if dependent on references etc.

In 20 years of doing this there was only once a delay that pushed back my start date by a week but the former contract was more than happy to extend me by a week 

If you're a seasoned job hopper, then you could presumably just hop a bit quicker if something in the contract isn't right!

I have much less faith in bureaucratic organisations like a local council. If you don't get the written docs upfront, you could be waiting a very long time...

If this were a county council or unitary authority, then I would be more inclined to make a noise given reasonably efficient bureaucratic procedures will frequently be a necessity... (most in-house county council or unitary authority HR and payroll departments still in house compete against Capita et al for the business of their formally maintained schools).