Solar and battery vs ASHP

1961Nick

Open plan living accommodation sounds perfect for a couple of air/air heat pumps or a couple of indoor units with one outdoor unit if space is an issue. The cost would be around £2000 for 6-10kWh of heat. Leave the panel heaters as a back up. With a COP of around 4 you'll see an energy saving of 50-75%.

70sbudgie

I don't know if this is possible but could you have an air source heat pump that outputs to both air and water? If you are taking up the floor down stairs, put wet UFH on the ground floor and air heating on the first floor (and other floors if you have more than 2 storeys). 

Even if it isn't combined, only having wet UFH will allow your ASHP to be smaller in size and run more efficiently. And depending on how many bedrooms you have how about, individual air to air HPs in each bedroom? Yes, you would have to get planning consent, but if the property has only recently been refurbished, that might have an impact.  And you wouldn't have to install all the bedroom units in one go, perhaps just start with the rooms you use most. Leave the panel heaters where they are in the unused rooms for the occiasions you need to heat the rooms.

If this is possible, combined with solar panels as @ispookie666 suggests, it will also provide you with the potential for cooling bedrooms in the summer. 

Another thought - what is the outside space like for ground source heating? It is more expensive than air, but has a better seasonal COP and might work better being in a valley?

Martyn1981

Can't agree more with Coastalwatch and Nick, got to be A2A. Get one, if you're not sure, perhaps 3.5kW if it can be placed where heat can flow to other rooms and areas, and see what you think. You're already leccy heated, so more heat for the same leccy has to be a plus.

You may not need PP for a single unit, I didn't, and the rules in wales are stricter for ASHP's requiring PP if within 3m of a neighbour, v's 1m in England. In fact I have two units ..... as I don't feel the relatively small outdoor unit has a significant impact on the look of the property (though others may disagree). 

Northern_Line

Thank you all.

I do in fact think, based on some conversations with a planning officer, an air-air heat pump could be closed off with a pre-planning application. No idea why they require a planning process and air-water doesn’t.. is the former nosier or something?

I guess from a cost perspective air-air wins hands down. It then unlocks potentially getting solar and battery down the line as there’s cash left over. My only doubt is how it might be viewed when we come to sell but to be honest, I’m probably overthinking that.

I would love a GSHP, but our house is somewhat unique. It’s why we bought it!  Due to its different elevations, we don’t have a garden per se, instead we have a raised decking area of approximately 30m2, so the GSHP is not viable.

I think from this what I’m taking away is some sort of ASHP, be it air-air or air-water is the answer. If the heating is sorted I can then move into door and battery as something that is additional, and not the primary concern.

One thing I still can’t get my head around is the cost differential between air and water. I get air-water does hot water too and requires the plumbing. But even then, the fact it would cost us 15k (less the government grant) when it uses the same technology as air-air does boggle the mind a bit.

The other main challenge I’m having is getting potential installers lined up. I’ve got two solid companies quoting for Air-water and doing heat loss estimates. The only guys I’ve found for air-air are refrigeration and air conditioning people, who come out to look and then for whatever reason don’t seem interested in doing the work! 

We’re probably well set up for either air source heat pump type. It’s got me thinking though that the government’s grant still doesn’t go far enough. With air-water we would save big as we’re all electric. But given gas is cheaper, I don’t see what incentive gas CH households have to fork at the cost of getting one.  Unless they’re like everyone here and care about the climate. We should of started the electrification process sooner in my view and built as much wind power as we feesibly can. Sadly I’m not in charge😆

new_owner

fenwick458 said:

I'd rule solar out on a NE roof
battery storage in my opinion is overpriced and won't be around for much longer , with the advent of EV's and bi-directional charging as standard you won't need to spend £10k on a measly 10kw battery you'll just get a 70kw battery in the form of an EV at no extra cost
Insulation seems a safe bet, just put all your money into insulating the house

I think home batteries will increase over time.

The trouble with running the house from your car is that you need to use your car. When this is happening the house must run off the grid. This is defeating the purpose when WFH and families could be consuming most of the daily energy while the car is parked at the office.

Cars are also not cheap to do V2L - So I suspect that house batteries will continue to get cheaper and more capacity. 

It also limits the usage to those with driveways.

The other issue will be cycles on the batteries. Home batteries will have a warranty set to a number of cycles (6-10k) or/and a number of years. They cost 6k+ for 12kWh and last 10 years... No brainer compared to the cost of a car.

1961Nick

Northern_Line said:

Thank you all.


I would love a GSHP, but our house is somewhat unique. It’s why we bought it!  Due to its different elevations, we don’t have a garden per se, instead we have a raised decking area of approximately 30m2, so the GSHP is not viable.

How much room is there under the decking because that would be a perfect location for ashp outdoor units?

1961Nick

Just so there's no confusion, this is what we mean by an A2A heat pump....

https://cooleasy.co.uk/categories/wall-mounted/lg-standard-plus.html

ispookie666

Any ASHP which can do cooling is not included in permitted development. Some councils have no clue about this, resulting in the common misconception about the first ASHP.
It is a silly rule hopefully will be superseded. The environmental planning officers are very cautious about the noise effect of the outdoor units. 

My Aircons were installed by an Aircon installer, you do need to be Fgas certified and was provided with 5 yr warranty, if purchased and serviced with him. 

The only incentive is 0% VAT as this is considered a low carbon tech. 

I'd suggest getting a reputable brand - someone once said, it's either Daikin or Mitsubishi ☺️

Northern_Line

1961Nick said:

Northern_Line said:

Thank you all.


I would love a GSHP, but our house is somewhat unique. It’s why we bought it!  Due to its different elevations, we don’t have a garden per se, instead we have a raised decking area of approximately 30m2, so the GSHP is not viable.

How much room is there under the decking because that would be a perfect location for ashp outdoor units?

About 30 m2? I must admit I hadn’t though about that. I will look into and see if they’re viable. I’ve heard very good things about them!

Northern_Line

I've had one guy come to check our requirements who said he would only bother with Daikin or Mitsubishi as they're the best and there's not loads between costs, so that promising! Do you know if the 0% is also applicable to air-air?