Loan being sold despite a charge on the property

Hi there, I hope someone can advise me on this complicated situation.
In 2009 I had a large Overdraft with Lloyds Tsb/Black Horse. To deal with this they made it into a loan (in the name of Black Horse) and then got a CCJ and a charging order on my property.
In 2010 I started an IVA and mistakenly added in both the amount on the charge and the same amount as an overdraft...
So, somewhere this must have triggered Lloyds to flag it as a bad debt account and sell the debt (the overdraft) despite there being a charge already on the property in respoect of the same

Fast forward to 2022, I am trying to sell my property and there is a charge. I've been informed the debt has been sold to TDX group/Grove but the name on the charge is still Black Horse. TDX apparently (according to Black Horse legal team) should have registered the charge in their name, but they didn't.

I've been in contact with both. Black Horse didn't know anything about the debt being sold. TDX group say once I've paid them the figure, they will inform BH and get the charge lifted.

Can this be right? I thought once a debt was sold, it was no longer the original creditors issue. Do I have any guarantee that TDX group will tell Black Horse? 
Can I legally ask BH to remove the charge as they no longer have a financial interest in the property having sold the loan?

Comments

  • sourcrates
    sourcrates Posts: 28,522
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    edited 23 December 2022 at 3:39PM
    Question, did your IVA complete successfully?

    Because if it did, and the debt was included in the arrangement, then the debt was written off, and because the IVA is legally binding it then supersedes and overturns the Judgment also.

    So if that were the case, there would be no debt, and no judgement, and the charge should have been removed by the original creditor.

    Why did that not happen?
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing [email protected]. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter
  • Farfetch1
    Farfetch1 Posts: 24
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    edited 24 December 2022 at 12:26AM
    Question, did your IVA complete successfully?

    Because if it did, and the debt was included in the arrangement, then the debt was written off, and because the IVA is legally binding it then supersedes and overturns the Judgment also.

    So if that were the case, there would be no debt, and no judgement, and the charge should have been removed by the original creditor.

    Why did that not happen?
    A secured debt would not be included in an IVA.

    The OP reads as them having a charging order before they entered an IVA. If so, the fact that they listed it as an overdraft is irrelevant.

    A secured debt can absolutely be sold, as can any debt.
  • silvercar
    silvercar Posts: 46,739
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    Question, did your IVA complete successfully?

    Because if it did, and the debt was included in the arrangement, then the debt was written off, and because the IVA is legally binding it then supersedes and overturns the Judgment also.

    So if that were the case, there would be no debt, and no judgement, and the charge should have been removed by the original creditor.

    Why did that not happen?
    Surely that would mean including the charging order in the IVA as an unsecured debt takes away the security of the charging order. It would mean that anyone including a secured debt (including a mortgage) in an IVA would get the secured debt written off and so effectively remove the security to the creditor? It would be a loophole open to abuse.
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  • fatbelly
    fatbelly Posts: 20,213
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    This is complex.

    If you ask on this thread

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1839539/charging-order-the-myth#latest

    the Land Registry rep should be able to help
  • sourcrates
    sourcrates Posts: 28,522
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    It is complex, a secured debt should not be allowed in an IVA, but it appears that it was.

    Usually in matters of law, what has occurred takes precedence over what should/should not occur, of course it would be nice if the OP can confirm successful completion of the IVA, or not.

    I agree its possibly one for the Land registry rep.


    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing [email protected]. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 5,740
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    From a purely registration perspective the devil is as always in the detail here and it’s unclear how the interest(s) is/are registered
    If there’s a non-secured debt registered, so not as a legal charge, then it can be sold and the register doesn’t have to be updated. The debt/interest still exists whoever the creditor is. 
    So settling the debt with Y as the current creditor and X as the named creditor then applying to discharge it is possible. 
    You have the register and what it says so you work from there to get any third party interests settled/removed/sorted prior to selling. The register detail is what’s missing here re any insight we can give. 
    Official Company Representative
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