Possible pension from way back in 1967-69

Richard1212

After A Levels in 1967, I deferred my chosen University place ( with their kind co-operation ) for 2 years. I spent 6 months working as a fruit picker, farmhand and others around Europe. Then I came home and worked for 18 months as a "milkman" ( yes, with my little electric float  ). I worked for Co-op Dairy and I wonder , out of curiosity, if I might be entitled to some of the unclaimed and unpaid £billions that Martin is often mentioning. So I wrote to Co-op HQ in Manchester and asked them to check it out for me. Co-Op sold out to Crest Dairy until the latter was taken over just a couple of years ago. But that should not alter the Co-op pension if it exists in some hidden cobwebbed vault.

I received a long letter giving me the statutory history of pensions in Britain over the past 100 years. Then it said a pension had been searched for me---and there was no record of any pension owing to me and I must send them  documentary proof of pension rights if they were to even consider doing anything for me ( from 1968-9 ho ho ho). But......they went on to say that there was no record of me ever being employed by the Co-op at all-----no wonder they couldn't find any info about a pension !!!!

So, I ask forumites for views please, hoping for bright ideas please. In case anyone suggests that I was regarded as a temporary/casual student worker and not listed as an employee or due to pension rights, I hasten to add that I told my employers nothing about my background , qualifications or circumstances. As far as they were concerned I was making this my job until I was 60 ----and I did the same job ( with my own regular "round") as all the other milkmen employed there, many of whom had been doing the job for many years and earning their family income from the work. I remember that the pay was very good ----and I remember getting up at 5am every morning even on Sundays. I worked hard, bought a car from my 18 months there ----and meeting many interesting people in a very deprived  inner-city area, and  with lots of memorable stories I retain from things that happened during that thoroughly enjoyable period of my life.

So..........any thoughts, folks ?   TIA and best wishes.  

molerat

Before the 1975 pension act there was very little right to a pension at all and then many simply evaporated if you left employment so in all likelihood a workplace pension from the late 60s for a youngster with only a short service will not exist.

hyubh

Very unlikely. DB schemes were only required to provide preservation rights for early leavers from 1974, and even then, only with 5 years service. In other words, leave employment -> get a refund of your pension contributions (less tax). It was also common not to make pension schemes open for younger and/or manual worker employees in the first place.

I'll be honest, I think an expectation that old payroll records from over half a century ago will be kept around is a little... hopeful. In addition, the Co-op was (is) also a federal organisation - pensions admin specifically was only centralised near the end the DB schemes' lives, so not so long ago.

Richard1212

molerat said:

Before the 1975 pension act there was very little right to a pension at all and then many simply evaporated if you left employment so in all likelihood a workplace pension from the late 60s for a youngster with only a short service will not exist.

That would be disappointing, molerat, though I am aware that the pre-1975 legislation may be my biggest cause of pessimism. I may have been a "youngster" but there were many like me and lots in middle or older age. We were all treated and paid the same good wage. Surely this may be one of those unclaimed and unpaid pensions that Martin is always banging on about and saying how unjust it is. And for the Co-Op to be asking ME to prove that I worked for them at all and to show documentary evidence over 50 years later shows an unwillingness to help rectify something which might be unjust and prevent me retiring to the Bahamas 

molerat

Before 1975 you pretty much had to have worked all your life in the job and retired from it and even after 1975, as mentioned by huybh above, you often had to have been 26 with 5 years pensionable service to retain any rights so those older workers would likely have ended up with a pension.

Marcon

Richard1212 said:

After A Levels in 1967, I deferred my chosen University place ( with their kind co-operation ) for 2 years. I spent 6 months working as a fruit picker, farmhand and others around Europe. Then I came home and worked for 18 months as a "milkman" ( yes, with my little electric float  ). I worked for Co-op Dairy and I wonder , out of curiosity, if I might be entitled to some of the unclaimed and unpaid £billions that Martin is often mentioning. So I wrote to Co-op HQ in Manchester and asked them to check it out for me. Co-Op sold out to Crest Dairy until the latter was taken over just a couple of years ago. But that should not alter the Co-op pension if it exists in some hidden cobwebbed vault.

I received a long letter giving me the statutory history of pensions in Britain over the past 100 years. Then it said a pension had been searched for me---and there was no record of any pension owing to me and I must send them  documentary proof of pension rights if they were to even consider doing anything for me ( from 1968-9 ho ho ho). But......they went on to say that there was no record of me ever being employed by the Co-op at all-----no wonder they couldn't find any info about a pension !!!!

So, I ask forumites for views please, hoping for bright ideas please. In case anyone suggests that I was regarded as a temporary/casual student worker and not listed as an employee or due to pension rights, I hasten to add that I told my employers nothing about my background , qualifications or circumstances. As far as they were concerned I was making this my job until I was 60 ----and I did the same job ( with my own regular "round") as all the other milkmen employed there, many of whom had been doing the job for many years and earning their family income from the work. I remember that the pay was very good ----and I remember getting up at 5am every morning even on Sundays. I worked hard, bought a car from my 18 months there ----and meeting many interesting people in a very deprived  inner-city area, and  with lots of memorable stories I retain from things that happened during that thoroughly enjoyable period of my life.

So..........any thoughts, folks ?   TIA and best wishes.  

If they still held such information, they'd be well and truly in breach of data protection legislation, so that's no surprise. There would be no valid reason for them to hold it. If you had pension benefits from many years ago, the information would in any case be held by the pension scheme trustees/administrators, not the employer - but I'm afraid you quite simply won't find a pension from then because there isn't one to find.

Until April 1975, those leaving 'active' membership of a pension scheme would only have been entitled to a refund of their own contributions to the company scheme. Where the scheme was non-contributory (i.e. the employee didn't have to pay any contributions), there was no refund to be repaid. There are some rare exceptions, but those are mainly in the public sector.

Richard1212 said:

molerat said:

Before the 1975 pension act there was very little right to a pension at all and then many simply evaporated if you left employment so in all likelihood a workplace pension from the late 60s for a youngster with only a short service will not exist.

That would be disappointing, molerat, though I am aware that the pre-1975 legislation may be my biggest cause of pessimism. I may have been a "youngster" but there were many like me and lots in middle or older age. We were all treated and paid the same good wage. Surely this may be one of those unclaimed and unpaid pensions that Martin is always banging on about and saying how unjust it is. And for the Co-Op to be asking ME to prove that I worked for them at all and to show documentary evidence over 50 years later shows an unwillingness to help rectify something which might be unjust and prevent me retiring to the Bahamas 

No, I'm afraid it isn't.

The Co-op has given you an accurate answer but also pointed out that if you have evidence to the contrary they'll look again. There's nothing else they can say or do, and I'm afraid nothing you can say or do.

In case it makes you feel any better, you aren't somehow missing out on a treasure trove. Given that pensions back in the 1960s were truly 'frozen', any pension earned then would in any case be tiny, based on such short service and what would have been earnings which were, by today's standards, extremely modest. Probably enough to buy an ice cream at the seaside rather than legging it to the Bahamas!

dunstonh

It is worth noting that had you been a member of the co-op pension with retained benefits then they would have a record of it.  If you were not a member in the first place or you lapsed before qualifying then there would be no record now.

MalMonroe

Hi, have you tried the pension tracing service?

https://www.gov.uk/find-pension-contact-details

Or here - https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/pensions/tracing-old-pensions/

I used them once to try to find my pension from a travel agency I worked at for two years from 1967 to 1969 BUT they couldn't even find the name of the employer in my case! It was a private business which folded in the early 1990s. 

But the Co-op has been going for donkeys' years and is a well-known name. You could always try for nothing. And then if it's a definite no-go at least you will know that you did all you could. 

Marcon

MalMonroe said:

Hi, have you tried the pension tracing service?

https://www.gov.uk/find-pension-contact-details

Or here - https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/pensions/tracing-old-pensions/

I used them once to try to find my pension from a travel agency I worked at for two years from 1967 to 1969 BUT they couldn't even find the name of the employer in my case! It was a private business which folded in the early 1990s. 

But the Co-op has been going for donkeys' years and is a well-known name. You could always try for nothing. And then if it's a definite no-go at least you will know that you did all you could. 

The pension tracing service doesn't find pensions; it tries (not always successfully) to give contact details for the people who currently administer them.

OP has already contacted the people responsible for administering the Co-op pension scheme; tracing the scheme is not the issue. The pertinent point is that there are no preserved pension benefits to find, for the reasons explained above.

Silvertabby

My late mum worked for the Co-op in the 1960s/early 70s.  She left with more than 5 years service and would have been over 25 - but when I queried her pension entitlement I was told that those who left before 1975 only received a pension if they had reached NRA at their date of leaving.  

Marcon

molerat said:

Before 1975 you pretty much had to have worked all your life in the job and retired from it and even after 1975, as mentioned by huybh above, you often had to have been 25 with 5 years service to retain any rights so those older workers would likely have ended up with a pension.

Minor correction - 26 (not 25) with at least 5 years' pensionable service (not the same thing as 'being employed for 5 years' - many pension schemes had 'waiting periods' and/or minimum joining ages).