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John Lewis sending me back my Return

in Consumer rights
8 replies 747 views
lildannys95lildannys95 Forumite
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Hi,

I am a bit stuck on how I go from here, 


I purchased a TV on 17th September online, and received it nearly a week later on 23rd September, we eventually decided it wasn't good for what we wanted so started the returns process. We never opened the box, and it went back exactly how it came.


I ordered a returns label via Hermes (Evri) on 12th October for home collection the following day (25 days after ordering, and 19 days after receipt of the TV) but it was an atrocious of a service, even though I booked it for a large collection, they kept sending our regular courier in his small car who said he can't take it, and told me to specifically tell them they need to send a specialist courier (man with a van basically) and after many emails back and forth, with me saying to send the specific courier, who has a van and has delivered bulky items to us before, they still never did even though they said they booked it in, but then sent the regular courier.


They also told me to return it to the nearest parcelshop which after a favour from I friend I took it but ended in disaster the first time as the cashier refused to accept it (quoting wrongly it's too big, when it's not, even showing her the email Hermes said, and the sizing regulations, she said in her words, it will end up in the skip at the back of the shop as they won't take it) so I had to begrudgingly take it home again. 


After telling Hermes this again what happened, they booked it in again for home collection telling me they will escalate it to "local management" but, sent our regular courier AGAIN to collect. After back-and-forth emails Hermes just stopped replying to me. Well, I had enough and went back to the parcel shop following their lack of replies, showed another cashier the emails from Hermes, their sizing regulations and how it's NOT overweight or oversized, she said bring it in and I happily took it back in and dropped it off that day on 9th November. Then this week, it finally arrived back to John Lewis on 16th November.


Now, John Lewis has emailed to say they will be returning it back, firstly, "as it's condition doesn't meet the refund policy" then left a message to say its outside the 35-day window of return. 35 days would be 22nd October if going by the day of order, or 28th October if going by the date I received the TV. I am not sure exactly how I stand, as my returns label has the date on it 12th October and should have been collected by Hermes on 13th October originally, I have all these emails to Hermes showing how much of a hassle this has been.

I see the date of the returns label, as the date I told them basically "I dont want the item anymore" as its well within the time limits of return, it was their courier returns service who did not return the item back in time, but I initiated the return by then so its Hermes fault not mine.


I also, did originally order a "Rebound" service label for it on 7th October, however due to having items go missing with the service previously, as well as being just a parcelshop dropoff only for that service, I decided to send it by a regular Hermes home collection, but I did include this original label behind the Hermes label so I can be sure the return is allocated to me upon receipt as it has a few barcodes they zap on receipt, which also shows I intended to return the item earlier. 


So, would anybody know how I stand with this? I feel pretty sure that because I ordered the labels well within the returns period this is proof of returning the item well within the period and that because its John Lewis own returns service via Hermes and how they messed with collection and dragged things along then that should stand within getting my refund as this issue is basically Hermes fault, not mine in the returns process.


What should I do regarding sending the item back to me, should I just refuse the item back and have it return to them?


Thanks for reading.

Dan

Replies

  • edited 18 November at 9:48AM
    Manxman_in_exileManxman_in_exile Forumite
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    edited 18 November at 9:48AM
    What have JL said when you explained all the above to them?

    Before deciding not to accept the item back, I think I'd check what JL wanted me to do...
  • jon81ukjon81uk Forumite
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    Why did you just get a label from Hermes?
    Did you contact John Lewis and ask for a return as per their policy? Returns & Refunds | Customer Services | John Lewis & Partners

    You have no consumer rights in this situation as to cancel under consumer rights legislation you needed to inform John Lewis within 14 days of receipt and make it available for them to collect.

    If you didn't contact John Lewis to tell them what was going on and that you wanted to return then I don't see you getting anywhere as you didn't make them aware you wanted to return in their time frame.

    If John Lewis appointed Hermes to collect the item then you should never have contacted Hermes, you should have kept going back to John Lewis as they should have dealt with Hermes for you.

  • soolinsoolin Forumite, Ambassador
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    jon81uk said:
    Why did you just get a label from Hermes?
    Did you contact John Lewis and ask for a return as per their policy? Returns & Refunds | Customer Services | John Lewis & Partners

    You have no consumer rights in this situation as to cancel under consumer rights legislation you needed to inform John Lewis within 14 days of receipt and make it available for them to collect.

    If you didn't contact John Lewis to tell them what was going on and that you wanted to return then I don't see you getting anywhere as you didn't make them aware you wanted to return in their time frame.

    If John Lewis appointed Hermes to collect the item then you should never have contacted Hermes, you should have kept going back to John Lewis as they should have dealt with Hermes for you.

    Obviously only the OP  can answer why they choose Evri, but might they have found it cheaper than using John Lewis' own return system, although your link suggests that that option isn't actually available, as they only talk about collecting unwanted items themselves. 

    'If the item is not damaged or faulty, we charge a collection fee of £29.95.'
    ’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the eBay, Auctions, Car Boot & Jumble Sales, Boost Your Income, Praise, Vents & Warnings, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning , UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know.. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing [email protected]
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  • sherambersheramber Forumite
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    Having seen how Hermes handle ( 0r mishandle)  parcels ,  I wouldn't trust Hermes to deliver a tv.

    TV are not covered by Hermes compensation.
  • diystarter7diystarter7 Forumite
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    OMG, that sounds like a nightmare. I'm glad we did not buy our TV, 75 Sony OLED from them a few weeks ago as we nearly did.


     Before you spend, remember the MSE Money Mantras. Ask yourself, do I need it? Can I afford it? If the answer is no to any of those questions, DON’T buy it.  (Quote from MSE  15/11/22)


    Politeness & courtesy are one of the few things in life that are free. Please remember that when posting/etc otherwise I may ignore the unpolite and unconstructive comments. Many thanks.
  • JumblebumbleJumblebumble Forumite
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    soolin said:
    jon81uk said:
    Why did you just get a label from Hermes?
    Did you contact John Lewis and ask for a return as per their policy? Returns & Refunds | Customer Services | John Lewis & Partners

    You have no consumer rights in this situation as to cancel under consumer rights legislation you needed to inform John Lewis within 14 days of receipt and make it available for them to collect.

    If you didn't contact John Lewis to tell them what was going on and that you wanted to return then I don't see you getting anywhere as you didn't make them aware you wanted to return in their time frame.

    If John Lewis appointed Hermes to collect the item then you should never have contacted Hermes, you should have kept going back to John Lewis as they should have dealt with Hermes for you.

    Obviously only the OP  can answer why they choose Evri, but might they have found it cheaper than using John Lewis' own return system, although your link suggests that that option isn't actually available, as they only talk about collecting unwanted items themselves. 

    'If the item is not damaged or faulty, we charge a collection fee of £29.95.'
    I wonder who the Hermes contract was with as if I my understanding is correct only John Lewis can answer why Evri was chosen
    Op says

    I ordered a returns label via Hermes
    but also says

     and that because its John Lewis own returns service via Hermes
  • edited 18 November at 4:56PM
    MalMonroeMalMonroe Forumite
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    edited 18 November at 4:56PM
    As jon81uk says, you really should have contacted JL about the return because Hermes/Evri is just the delivery service sub-contracted by JL. The retailer is responsible, not the courier.

    In your position now, though, given that you can't go back in time, I would phone JL customer services and stay on the line with an adviser or supervisor or biggest boss they have until the matter is sorted to your satisfaction.

    You should not have had anything to do with the returns service, other than telling JL you wanted to return the TV and preparing it for that return.

    It's all on JL's shoulders.  

    As per the information in the link from this very site (updated 14 Nov), you do have rights when ordering online but you may have to pay return delivery fees if there's no fault with an item.

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

    John Lewis's page does state they will charge for returns -

     https://www.johnlewis.com/customer-services/returns?dt=returningAnItem-large-notWantedLarge

    But I think their charges are a bit steep and I'd definitely want to haggle with them, especially as your 'return' seems to have turned into a bit of a boomerang.

    Try appealing to their sense of fairness and desire to offer great customer service. 

    Next time, buy from Richer Sounds - their guarantee is for six years and they have a fairer policy!
  • lildannys95lildannys95 Forumite
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    What have JL said when you explained all the above to them?

    Before deciding not to accept the item back, I think I'd check what JL wanted me to do...
    jon81uk said:
    Why did you just get a label from Hermes?
    Did you contact John Lewis and ask for a return as per their policy? Returns & Refunds | Customer Services | John Lewis & Partners

    You have no consumer rights in this situation as to cancel under consumer rights legislation you needed to inform John Lewis within 14 days of receipt and make it available for them to collect.

    If you didn't contact John Lewis to tell them what was going on and that you wanted to return then I don't see you getting anywhere as you didn't make them aware you wanted to return in their time frame.

    If John Lewis appointed Hermes to collect the item then you should never have contacted Hermes, you should have kept going back to John Lewis as they should have dealt with Hermes for you.

    soolin said:
    jon81uk said:
    Why did you just get a label from Hermes?
    Did you contact John Lewis and ask for a return as per their policy? Returns & Refunds | Customer Services | John Lewis & Partners

    You have no consumer rights in this situation as to cancel under consumer rights legislation you needed to inform John Lewis within 14 days of receipt and make it available for them to collect.

    If you didn't contact John Lewis to tell them what was going on and that you wanted to return then I don't see you getting anywhere as you didn't make them aware you wanted to return in their time frame.

    If John Lewis appointed Hermes to collect the item then you should never have contacted Hermes, you should have kept going back to John Lewis as they should have dealt with Hermes for you.

    Obviously only the OP  can answer why they choose Evri, but might they have found it cheaper than using John Lewis' own return system, although your link suggests that that option isn't actually available, as they only talk about collecting unwanted items themselves. 

    'If the item is not damaged or faulty, we charge a collection fee of £29.95.'
    sheramber said:
    Having seen how Hermes handle ( 0r mishandle)  parcels ,  I wouldn't trust Hermes to deliver a tv.

    TV are not covered by Hermes compensation.
    OMG, that sounds like a nightmare. I'm glad we did not buy our TV, 75 Sony OLED from them a few weeks ago as we nearly did.


    soolin said:
    jon81uk said:
    Why did you just get a label from Hermes?
    Did you contact John Lewis and ask for a return as per their policy? Returns & Refunds | Customer Services | John Lewis & Partners

    You have no consumer rights in this situation as to cancel under consumer rights legislation you needed to inform John Lewis within 14 days of receipt and make it available for them to collect.

    If you didn't contact John Lewis to tell them what was going on and that you wanted to return then I don't see you getting anywhere as you didn't make them aware you wanted to return in their time frame.

    If John Lewis appointed Hermes to collect the item then you should never have contacted Hermes, you should have kept going back to John Lewis as they should have dealt with Hermes for you.

    Obviously only the OP  can answer why they choose Evri, but might they have found it cheaper than using John Lewis' own return system, although your link suggests that that option isn't actually available, as they only talk about collecting unwanted items themselves. 

    'If the item is not damaged or faulty, we charge a collection fee of £29.95.'
    I wonder who the Hermes contract was with as if I my understanding is correct only John Lewis can answer why Evri was chosen
    Op says

    I ordered a returns label via Hermes
    but also says

     and that because its John Lewis own returns service via Hermes
    MalMonroe said:
    As jon81uk says, you really should have contacted JL about the return because Hermes/Evri is just the delivery service sub-contracted by JL. The retailer is responsible, not the courier.

    In your position now, though, given that you can't go back in time, I would phone JL customer services and stay on the line with an adviser or supervisor or biggest boss they have until the matter is sorted to your satisfaction.

    You should not have had anything to do with the returns service, other than telling JL you wanted to return the TV and preparing it for that return.

    It's all on JL's shoulders.  

    As per the information in the link from this very site (updated 14 Nov), you do have rights when ordering online but you may have to pay return delivery fees if there's no fault with an item.

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

    John Lewis's page does state they will charge for returns -

     https://www.johnlewis.com/customer-services/returns?dt=returningAnItem-large-notWantedLarge

    But I think their charges are a bit steep and I'd definitely want to haggle with them, especially as your 'return' seems to have turned into a bit of a boomerang.

    Try appealing to their sense of fairness and desire to offer great customer service. 

    Next time, buy from Richer Sounds - their guarantee is for six years and they have a fairer policy!

    Hey everyone,

    Thanks for your replies they have been really helpful!

    I thought I would reply as 1 message so I don't get too repetitive and can clarify a few things. 

    The TV is small enough to go back under a "small item" return rather than a "large item" (Large is fridges, freezers, very big TVs etc which is why JL collect them) My TV return fits the size guidelines for Hermes/Evri. The label is booked though the JL website, to Hermes/Evri link to book a collection, where you pick a collection date or decide to drop off at a parcelshop and is not one I purchased directly with Evri in a private capacity. I have returned small items to JL before and its simply use the prepaid Royal Mail label or order a label from Hermes, Collect + or back to store etc. There is nothing to say you need to pre-notify them outside of what it says on the returns page which is to simply book the return through a courier or post it. 
     
    This is the returns page Link, this is what I followed on the first paragraph and also under the title "Evri Drop Off & Collection"

    Hermes/Evri was the only home collection option available and only service on the list which can handle the size and weight, Hermes really aren't my first choice of courier by any means, especially for valuable items they do break, smash and loose things and are a general nightmare to deal with, as experienced with them recently, but as they are on the list from JL directly and is their choice of returns courier, I booked it, as their other options won't take the size and weight of the parcel. 


    On the link to Hermes I clicked their "Large Parcel - Courier Collection Only" option, which should have booked the courier who handles the larger parcels and with a van. That is where the issue came, as the regular courier could not get the TV in his small car but Hermes kept booking him to collect. 


    I followed each part of the guidance on the JL website link above, and this is why I think I have a ground to stand with, as the label has my order number on, and the date I requested the label and is their courier. This seems the point where I "Informed" them of my intention to return. It's purely Hermes problems for taking the time to collect and deliver. If I didn't ask for a favour and ask my friend to take it in his van to the Parcel shop again, I would still be in possession of it.


    I have emailed them a reply and I am yet to hear back; I haven't had the chance to call them during their working hours as I am working all day, but least this way there is a written record of the conversation. I do hope they can see once its clarified that I simply haven't sent this back super late. If JL do decide to return the TV in the interim, I will decline delivery, because I cannot go through the process of trying to return it again and I don't want to look as if I accept the return back.


    I definitely won't be purchasing any more tech items from them after this experience, and will definitely check out Richer Sounds, but I do hope I can come to a positive resolution with JL once they have read my clarification of what's happened. They do seem very polite on their messages and hope they can see sense once they have got to my reply. 


    Would anybody think a Section 75 is useable in this scenario if it comes to a deadlock with them though? Thats my only other thought if they do outright keep to no. 


    Thanks,
    Danny 
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