Deceased parent's council house debt charges - are children legally responsible if they live there?

[Deleted User]

Dynamic_Edge said:

MorningcoffeeIV said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

3.  And can I use their own mistake in the writing of my name (surname missing) on the letter against them - and claim that this letter was not actually addressed to me at all?

LOL. No.

You can always ask them to resend the letter in your full name if you want but doesn't make any difference.

If there are any funds remaining from her estate, then they must be used to settle outstanding debts. You'll need to evidence that there is nothing remaining and it wasn't spent on anything other than the funeral expenses or other higher priority debts.

If there are no funds, the debt will be written off.

Regarding funds from the estate: you say I'll need evidence to show there's nothing remaining. The thing is, my mother's bank account savings were passed onto me nearly 2 months after her death, paid directly to my account. Her funeral expenses were quite complex, as a part of the funeral (cremation) was done here in UK, and then I took her ashes abroad and buried them there via a special service. And I stayed abroad for a few weeks, for  spiritual / religious reasons in connection with my mother's death. So the funeral expenses also incurred expensive flight tickets, transportation, me renting a hotel, etc. And all this was paid for from my own money, since all this took place after my mother's savings were passed onto me. 

Are you saying all this must be proved? And in retrospect, how can it be shown that it was specifically my mother's funds that were used, given that these expenses were incurred before the funds were transferred to me? Further: even if these expenses took place after I received the funds, these would have been paid out of my account - which would then have all the combined income (my own, and my mother's).

It is highly unlikely that the council will accept you going on what effectively amounts to a 5 week holiday as legitimate funeral expenses. The cremation here could be claimed, as could sending her ashes abroad for someone else to bury, perhaps a sympathetic council person might extend that to you flying there to do the burial if you could show it was an intrinsic part of your culture, but staying abroad, hotel costs etc for a spiritual retreat and claiming these were legitimate funeral costs is going to raise eyebrows.

You inherit say £5000, lets say the cremation cost was £1000, that £4000 is money for the debts of the estate. That money was not yours to spend on your own plans. Unfortunately your choice to go abroad and all the other bits you tagged on were something you needed to pay for yourself, or via some sort of funeral insurance policy that could have been arranged in the past

You should seek legal advice as above, perhaps a legal bod who was also someone from your religion would have experience in this area?

macman

Dynamic_Edge said:

macman said:

The occupiers are liable. If you are the only occupier, then that is you. Though you will now qualify for the SPD of course.
That applies whether you are a tenant, lodger or excluded occupier.

What is SPL? Why would the present occupier be liable for another person's debt who is deceased?

SPD: Single Person Discount (25%).
CT has a hierarchy of liability, as follows:

1. A resident owner-occupier who owns either the leasehold or freehold of all or part of the property.
2. A resident tenant.
3. A resident who lives in the property and who is a licensee - this means that they’re not a tenant, but have permission to stay there.
4. Any resident living in the property, for example, a squatter.
5. An owner of the property where no one is resident.
   

Your mother was liable as per no. 2. On the date of her death the liability passed to you, formerly no. 3, but from that date as the only remaining resident, hence the SPD applying.
The allowable expenses cover the funeral, burial or cremation, flowers and a modest wake-not transport and accomodation.

Edit: I have reread your post and it is not clear what you mean by 'housing charges-I had thought this meant C Tax, since that's the Board you are posting under, but now suspect you are just talking about overdue rent? Please clarify.

Dynamic_Edge

Deleted_User said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

MorningcoffeeIV said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

3.  And can I use their own mistake in the writing of my name (surname missing) on the letter against them - and claim that this letter was not actually addressed to me at all?

LOL. No.

You can always ask them to resend the letter in your full name if you want but doesn't make any difference.

If there are any funds remaining from her estate, then they must be used to settle outstanding debts. You'll need to evidence that there is nothing remaining and it wasn't spent on anything other than the funeral expenses or other higher priority debts.

If there are no funds, the debt will be written off.

Regarding funds from the estate: you say I'll need evidence to show there's nothing remaining. The thing is, my mother's bank account savings were passed onto me nearly 2 months after her death, paid directly to my account. Her funeral expenses were quite complex, as a part of the funeral (cremation) was done here in UK, and then I took her ashes abroad and buried them there via a special service. And I stayed abroad for a few weeks, for  spiritual / religious reasons in connection with my mother's death. So the funeral expenses also incurred expensive flight tickets, transportation, me renting a hotel, etc. And all this was paid for from my own money, since all this took place after my mother's savings were passed onto me. 

Are you saying all this must be proved? And in retrospect, how can it be shown that it was specifically my mother's funds that were used, given that these expenses were incurred before the funds were transferred to me? Further: even if these expenses took place after I received the funds, these would have been paid out of my account - which would then have all the combined income (my own, and my mother's).

It is highly unlikely that the council will accept you going on what effectively amounts to a 5 week holiday as legitimate funeral expenses. The cremation here could be claimed, as could sending her ashes abroad for someone else to bury, perhaps a sympathetic council person might extend that to you flying there to do the burial if you could show it was an intrinsic part of your culture, but staying abroad, hotel costs etc for a spiritual retreat and claiming these were legitimate funeral costs is going to raise eyebrows.

You inherit say £5000, lets say the cremation cost was £1000, that £4000 is money for the debts of the estate. That money was not yours to spend on your own plans. Unfortunately your choice to go abroad and all the other bits you tagged on were something you needed to pay for yourself, or via some sort of funeral insurance policy that could have been arranged in the past

You should seek legal advice as above, perhaps a legal bod who was also someone from your religion would have experience in this area?

The cremation here ,coffin etc came to around £1300. The burial of ashes abroad cost over a £1000 additionally, it's done by a professional company. I needed to be there in person to meet the representatives of the company and handle the relevant paperwork. The burial takes place cannot take place immediately. This means several days of hotel stays there.  Nobody else could have done the burial because I have no-one else. Even if had, someone else burying the ashes of my mother is preposterous. And further, this is an expensive country relatively far away from UK, the trip there and back isn't something that can be done in one day unless you have a private jet The return ticket altogether was nearly an extra £1000.

Besides: I also needed to refund the overpaid pension credit in my mother's account.

All this already brings up the total expenses to over £4k.

Dynamic_Edge

macman said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

macman said:

The occupiers are liable. If you are the only occupier, then that is you. Though you will now qualify for the SPD of course.
That applies whether you are a tenant, lodger or excluded occupier.

What is SPL? Why would the present occupier be liable for another person's debt who is deceased?

SPD: Single Person Discount (25%).
CT has a hierarchy of liability, as follows:

1. A resident owner-occupier who owns either the leasehold or freehold of all or part of the property.
2. A resident tenant.
3. A resident who lives in the property and who is a licensee - this means that they’re not a tenant, but have permission to stay there.
4. Any resident living in the property, for example, a squatter.
5. An owner of the property where no one is resident.
   

Your mother was liable as per no. 2. On the date of her death the liability passed to you, formerly no. 3, but from that date as the only remaining resident, hence the SPD applying.
The allowable expenses cover the funeral, burial or cremation, flowers and a modest wake-not transport and accomodation.

Edit: I have reread your post and it is not clear what you mean by 'housing charges-I had thought this meant C Tax, since that's the Board you are posting under, but now suspect you are just talking about overdue rent? Please clarify.

macman said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

macman said:

The occupiers are liable. If you are the only occupier, then that is you. Though you will now qualify for the SPD of course.
That applies whether you are a tenant, lodger or excluded occupier.

What is SPL? Why would the present occupier be liable for another person's debt who is deceased?

SPD: Single Person Discount (25%).
CT has a hierarchy of liability, as follows:

1. A resident owner-occupier who owns either the leasehold or freehold of all or part of the property.
2. A resident tenant.
3. A resident who lives in the property and who is a licensee - this means that they’re not a tenant, but have permission to stay there.
4. Any resident living in the property, for example, a squatter.
5. An owner of the property where no one is resident.
   

Your mother was liable as per no. 2. On the date of her death the liability passed to you, formerly no. 3, but from that date as the only remaining resident, hence the SPD applying.
The allowable expenses cover the funeral, burial or cremation, flowers and a modest wake-not transport and accomodation.

Edit: I have reread your post and it is not clear what you mean by 'housing charges-I had thought this meant C Tax, since that's the Board you are posting under, but now suspect you are just talking about overdue rent? Please clarify.

To clarify: I am talking about rent. Nothing to do with Council Tax.

You say the liability passed to me on the day of death. The council case worker a few weeks ago (who deals with change of tenancy) stressed that I am not liable to pay any charges till the Notice to Quit expires and I became an illegal occupier. Hence my surprise at receiving the debt letter. 

macman

When I said the liability passed to you on date of death, I was referring to C Tax. That point stands: you are now liable for the ongong CT charges, whether tenant, or excluded occupier, as you are the sole occupant. The liability for rent is a different matter.
Re the funeral, the fact remains that you cannot expect to offset the cost of travel and accommodation in addition to the actual funeral and burial costs. The costs could otherwise be limitless.

Dynamic_Edge

macman said:

When I said the liability passed to you on date of death, I was referring to C Tax. That point stands: you are now liable for the ongong CT charges, whether tenant, or excluded occupier, as you are the sole occupant. The liability for rent is a different matter.
Re the funeral, the fact remains that you cannot expect to offset the cost of travel and accommodation in addition to the actual funeral and burial costs. The costs could otherwise be limitless.

Thank you. My post here was specifically about rent - sorry for not making it clear apriori.

silvercar

Dynamic_Edge said:

Deleted_User said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

MorningcoffeeIV said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

3.  And can I use their own mistake in the writing of my name (surname missing) on the letter against them - and claim that this letter was not actually addressed to me at all?

LOL. No.

You can always ask them to resend the letter in your full name if you want but doesn't make any difference.

If there are any funds remaining from her estate, then they must be used to settle outstanding debts. You'll need to evidence that there is nothing remaining and it wasn't spent on anything other than the funeral expenses or other higher priority debts.

If there are no funds, the debt will be written off.

Regarding funds from the estate: you say I'll need evidence to show there's nothing remaining. The thing is, my mother's bank account savings were passed onto me nearly 2 months after her death, paid directly to my account. Her funeral expenses were quite complex, as a part of the funeral (cremation) was done here in UK, and then I took her ashes abroad and buried them there via a special service. And I stayed abroad for a few weeks, for  spiritual / religious reasons in connection with my mother's death. So the funeral expenses also incurred expensive flight tickets, transportation, me renting a hotel, etc. And all this was paid for from my own money, since all this took place after my mother's savings were passed onto me. 

Are you saying all this must be proved? And in retrospect, how can it be shown that it was specifically my mother's funds that were used, given that these expenses were incurred before the funds were transferred to me? Further: even if these expenses took place after I received the funds, these would have been paid out of my account - which would then have all the combined income (my own, and my mother's).

It is highly unlikely that the council will accept you going on what effectively amounts to a 5 week holiday as legitimate funeral expenses. The cremation here could be claimed, as could sending her ashes abroad for someone else to bury, perhaps a sympathetic council person might extend that to you flying there to do the burial if you could show it was an intrinsic part of your culture, but staying abroad, hotel costs etc for a spiritual retreat and claiming these were legitimate funeral costs is going to raise eyebrows.

You inherit say £5000, lets say the cremation cost was £1000, that £4000 is money for the debts of the estate. That money was not yours to spend on your own plans. Unfortunately your choice to go abroad and all the other bits you tagged on were something you needed to pay for yourself, or via some sort of funeral insurance policy that could have been arranged in the past

You should seek legal advice as above, perhaps a legal bod who was also someone from your religion would have experience in this area?

The cremation here ,coffin etc came to around £1300. The burial of ashes abroad cost over a £1000 additionally, it's done by a professional company. I needed to be there in person to meet the representatives of the company and handle the relevant paperwork. The burial takes place cannot take place immediately. This means several days of hotel stays there.  Nobody else could have done the burial because I have no-one else. Even if had, someone else burying the ashes of my mother is preposterous. And further, this is an expensive country relatively far away from UK, the trip there and back isn't something that can be done in one day unless you have a private jet The return ticket altogether was nearly an extra £1000.

Besides: I also needed to refund the overpaid pension credit in my mother's account.

All this already brings up the total expenses to over £4k.

Sorry for your loss.

Generally, you meet the cost of attending funerals of loved ones yourself. This applies even if you have special responsibilities. 

[Deleted User]

Dynamic_Edge said:

Deleted_User said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

MorningcoffeeIV said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

3.  And can I use their own mistake in the writing of my name (surname missing) on the letter against them - and claim that this letter was not actually addressed to me at all?

LOL. No.

You can always ask them to resend the letter in your full name if you want but doesn't make any difference.

If there are any funds remaining from her estate, then they must be used to settle outstanding debts. You'll need to evidence that there is nothing remaining and it wasn't spent on anything other than the funeral expenses or other higher priority debts.

If there are no funds, the debt will be written off.

Regarding funds from the estate: you say I'll need evidence to show there's nothing remaining. The thing is, my mother's bank account savings were passed onto me nearly 2 months after her death, paid directly to my account. Her funeral expenses were quite complex, as a part of the funeral (cremation) was done here in UK, and then I took her ashes abroad and buried them there via a special service. And I stayed abroad for a few weeks, for  spiritual / religious reasons in connection with my mother's death. So the funeral expenses also incurred expensive flight tickets, transportation, me renting a hotel, etc. And all this was paid for from my own money, since all this took place after my mother's savings were passed onto me. 

Are you saying all this must be proved? And in retrospect, how can it be shown that it was specifically my mother's funds that were used, given that these expenses were incurred before the funds were transferred to me? Further: even if these expenses took place after I received the funds, these would have been paid out of my account - which would then have all the combined income (my own, and my mother's).

It is highly unlikely that the council will accept you going on what effectively amounts to a 5 week holiday as legitimate funeral expenses. The cremation here could be claimed, as could sending her ashes abroad for someone else to bury, perhaps a sympathetic council person might extend that to you flying there to do the burial if you could show it was an intrinsic part of your culture, but staying abroad, hotel costs etc for a spiritual retreat and claiming these were legitimate funeral costs is going to raise eyebrows.

You inherit say £5000, lets say the cremation cost was £1000, that £4000 is money for the debts of the estate. That money was not yours to spend on your own plans. Unfortunately your choice to go abroad and all the other bits you tagged on were something you needed to pay for yourself, or via some sort of funeral insurance policy that could have been arranged in the past

You should seek legal advice as above, perhaps a legal bod who was also someone from your religion would have experience in this area?

The cremation here ,coffin etc came to around £1300. The burial of ashes abroad cost over a £1000 additionally, it's done by a professional company. I needed to be there in person to meet the representatives of the company and handle the relevant paperwork. The burial takes place cannot take place immediately. This means several days of hotel stays there.  Nobody else could have done the burial because I have no-one else. Even if had, someone else burying the ashes of my mother is preposterous. And further, this is an expensive country relatively far away from UK, the trip there and back isn't something that can be done in one day unless you have a private jet The return ticket altogether was nearly an extra £1000.

Besides: I also needed to refund the overpaid pension credit in my mother's account.

All this already brings up the total expenses to over £4k.

This is not standard though, your creation / coffin etc of £1300 were legitimate costs relating to the death which can be paid for from the estate. The £1000+ for a company to bury ashes (really!) plus £1000 on flights, hotel stay etc are not legitimate funeral costs, they are something you chose to carry out and unfortunately they are not expenses that can be used against the inheritance. It's equally not preposterous for a firm to transport and do the burial given you have done the ceremony here - there are firms that specialise in this area.

As I said, speak to someone with legal experience in the area of your culture and see what they advise but your choice for a a 5 week spiritual retreat and all the rest are simply part of life. 

Ksw3

Are they writing you as executor/legal personal representative to cover the debt due from the estate up to X date but also writing to you as the current occupier from X date so there is no gap but the liable party has changed?