Stupidly expensive PV+Battery quotes in Scotland

kvothe

Like most people on this forum, I've been looking at installing PV + Battery systems. I've called pretty much every MCS certified company within a 100 mile radius.
I've got 10 quotations so far, of which only 1 installer that quoted for the inverter + battery system that I'm interested in.

The final line (£11.5k) is my sum of panels + inverter + battery (based on distributor pricing, through my company, I can check price list, lead times, etc). Along with average cost of misc materials, mounting systems, etc (based on the 10 quotes). Including a Labour cost of £2,000.

From the looks of it, everyone is charging a markup of at least 30% on the materials and pocketing the 0% VAT benefit.

Here are the quotes:


What are my options here? I don't care one bit for the SEG payments or the MCS Certification. But if I want to use the Scottish government funding, they require you to use an MCS installer. (£2k down the drain)

2nd_time_buyer

I think you might be being a bit stingy with the labor costs. The scaffolding can cost up to £1000 (it was for us), then you have the backend admin, and all the other costs with running a business (and having to prepare 10 quotes for every one accepted ) on top of the labor for installation. My experience is they tend to wrap some of the labor cost into the materials cost to make it more palatable.  On the surface, Quote 5 does not seem totally unreasonable.

As an aside, when I modelled it in the Soalredge software. The total generation was higher with an inverter 25% undersized compared to one with the same output as the panels. This is due to it being more efficient at lower power levels which more than offsets the clipping at high levels. The advantage is perhaps more so if you consider the power generated at lower output levels is likely to be more valuable.

2nd_time_buyer

I was keeping an eye on this. Seems pretty good value, currently at £1100 for 2.4kwh. 

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QrizB

2nd_time_buyer said:

I was keeping an eye on this. Seems pretty good value, currently at £1100 for 2.4kwh.

Whether it's good value or not depends on what you want to do with it.

JKenH, for example, has one for emergency use; you can see his thread here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6360585/portable-power-stations/p1

My system is as follows:

1. 2kw solar array. We used high quality Renogy panels.
2. 6kw inverters
3. 7kw battery backup.

Total cost £7,000

IMHO you've paid over the odds for a system which is less capable than a proper grid-linked system would be.

For example, £5400 would get you 3.2kWp of solar PV plus 2 x 2.4kWh Pylontech batteries:
https://www.bimblesolar.com/ongrid/hybrid-storage?product_id=2420

For an additional £1000 you could add a third Pylontech to get 7.2kWh of storage.

Renogy panels only come with a 5-year warranty, which is pretty poor by most standards.

kvothe

2nd_time_buyer said:

I think you might be being a bit stingy with the labor costs. The scaffolding can cost up to £1000 (it was for us), then you have the backend admin, and all the other costs with running a business (and having to prepare 10 quotes for every one accepted ) on top of the labor for installation. My experience is they tend to wrap some of the labor cost into the materials cost to make it more palatable.  On the surface, Quote 5 does not seem totally unreasonable.

As an aside, when I modelled it in the Soalredge software. The total generation was higher with an inverter 25% undersized compared to one with the same output as the panels. This is due to it being more efficient at lower power levels which more than offsets the clipping at high levels. The advantage is perhaps more so if you consider the power generated at lower output levels is likely to be more valuable.

Sorry I should have clarified the Labour costs exclude scaffolding. The scaffolding is included as a separate line item in the total costs. I've been quoted anywhere between £800 to £1800 for scaffolding.

2nd_time_buyer

The scaffolding seems to be a big variable. Light Renewables who quite a few forum members in the South of UK have used, seem to do their installations off ladders. This means they can be very competitive, particularly when installations are over several roofs. By not sub contracting this out presumably the is also comes with cost and time savings. Although there are obvious H&S implications. 

 So the total costs in your table of quotes includes scaffolding? If so, Quote 5 looks okay.

kvothe

Nope it's not enough. My base load is around 800W (working from home, two fridge freezers, CCTV systems, home automation, etc).

With any two large appliances on I'm way over 3.68kW.

Most installers go for the 3.68kW option because it doesn't require DNO approval.

Ideally I would like a 5kW inverter so I can actually make use of the batteries without relying on the grid.

I would rather use the energy than sell to the grid. As I'm in Scotland, I suspect there won't be many (any) days a year where I'd generate 15kWh from a 4-5kW panel system.

But I use around 9-10 kWh everyday, so I'd want to charge the batteries on cheaper overnight tariffs.

QrizB

I'm glad your happy with your system.

What follows won't help you - you've already spent your money - but might help others in future reading this thread.

There's a discussion going on elsewhere elsewhere on the forum around the shortfalls of portable power banks vs. than an installed battery system. I don't see any benefit to discussing those here.

As for your choice of panels:

Renegy panels are well reviewed and highly regarded at my price range.

Renogy panels are, on the whole, small-sized panels for 12v mobile systems. They have a price premium as a result; for example, currently their largest panel is rated at 200 watts and is discounted to £175:

https://uk.renogy.com/200-watt-12-volt-monocrystalline-solar-panel/

That's 87.5p per watt.

Panels intended for static installations on buildings and in solar farms are simultaneously cheaper and longer-warranted. The 410 watt Canadian solar panel in that Bimble Solar system has a 12-year warranty and is £196:

https://www.bimblesolar.com/410w-canadian-solar-panel-great-size

That's 47.8p per watt.

At your price range, your money would go much further if you bought equipment that was more appropriate to your situation.

pramsay13

Try Lukas Solar Services. They are based in West Central Scotland although cover the whole of Scotland.
They use ladders so don't need scaffolding and have done ours and my parents' house for a reasonable price.

kvothe

pramsay13 said:

Try Lukas Solar Services. They are based in West Central Scotland although cover the whole of Scotland.
They use ladders so don't need scaffolding and have done ours and my parents' house for a reasonable price.

Thanks! Will give them a ring next week. If you don't mind sharing, which panel, inverter and battery combo did you go for?

Alnat1

I have a 3.6 inverter and I've not really had a problem. You easily get used to 1 big user at a time.

Click the kettle on, while it's boiling place bread in toaster, as soon as kettle finishes turn on toaster, make tea, toaster pops up. Eat breakfast. 

Turn on washer, which you have worked out hits heating part of quickwash cycle after 5 minutes. Immediately turn on dishwasher, which you know hits heating part of eco cycle after 20 minutes by which time the washer has done heating.

Washer takes 38 minutes, when it's done put clothes in the dryer (dishwasher will have done 1st heating phase by then) clothes take 35-70 minutes to dry. Tumble dryer will have finished before dishwasher hits 2nd heat phase.

Also know I can boil my 2000w kettle while the tumble dryer is on