Battery or no Battery - Please help me decide!

Niv

Wow, thank you everybody. This forum has not let me down when it comes to sharing opinions on batteries. 

There is a lot to digest and it is fair to say that there is no blanket answer that will fit for anyone.

I believe I may not have included in my OP but we use approx 3100kW/year. This seems to tilt the balance of payback against a battery, coupled with the immersion diverter may make it even less so.

I have used the payback calculator based on 35p unit rate and 15p SEG and I get 6.9yeras without battery and 9.5years with.

For any investment (or home improvement) where the core aim is to reduce bills then ROI is a no brainer in my opinion, of course there is also a convenience with batteries as some have said (i.e. not having to change usage patterns / marriage harmony). I believe my significant other is also willing to move energy usage to help keep the costs down (if that lasts who knows), for us I think this is literally the washing machine, dishwasher and probably vacuuming, there is not alot else that springs to mind that we can shift. Cooking is semi shifted in that we do some batch cooking that can be reheated at a convenient time and use an air fryer for small batches of cooking and a slow cooker.

I think the last element for me to consider is if we are really likely to experience blackouts to the extent some believe over a long term, as of course this puts an entirely different spin on things. We currently get very short powercuts here, not enough to justify a battery but there is potential for more wide spread and longer planned cuts in the future.

I regret that my thread has caused a bit of a conflict between a couple of members but, without going into details, I think it shows the passion of us to do the best for ourselves and each other and I feel the point of views came from a good place albeit that emotions may have got a little out of hand.

2nd_time_buyer

Niv said:

I have used the payback calculator based on 35p unit rate and 15p SEG and I get 6.9yeras without battery and 9.5years with.

The 15p SEG is the highest it has been - it has nearly tripled in the last year. Spot prices have now decreased since the current rate was launched. There is a (strong) chance it may not be so favorable going forward. My personal opinion is that in the medium term that prices will fall below the levels pre the energy crisis. It might be worth factoring if you are still happy if the payback periods are e.g., 10 years (sans battery) and 15 years (with a battery).   

I think the last element for me to consider is if we are really likely to experience blackouts to the extent some believe over a long term, as of course this puts an entirely different spin on things. We currently get very short powercuts here, not enough to justify a battery but there is potential for more wide spread and longer planned cuts in the future.

As default most batteries need grid power to output. You will need one wired up for island mode to provide power to a circuit in a power cut.

I regret that my thread has caused a bit of a conflict between a couple of members but, without going into details, I think it shows the passion of us to do the best for ourselves and each other and I feel the point of views came from a good place albeit that emotions may have got a little out of hand.

I wouldn't worry about that at all. Generally, this forum is one of the most positive, helpful and friendly I have encountered. Sometimes we just overflow a bit with enthusiasm.

Solarchaser

At 3100kwh annually, id say go with solar and diverter.
Worth noting though, if you normally heat your water with gas, you may find its cheaper to continue doing that and export your excess.

Screwdriva

Solarchaser said:

At 3100kwh annually, id say go with solar and diverter.
Worth noting though, if you normally heat your water with gas, you may find its cheaper to continue doing that and export your excess.

Once again, agree 100%. 

If you're getting a diverter, I'd recommend an Eddi. (Will integrated really well with Libbi batteries should consumption increase (heat pump/ EV) and you decide to go with storage in the future). 

Niv

Solarchaser said:

At 3100kwh annually, id say go with solar and diverter.
Worth noting though, if you normally heat your water with gas, you may find its cheaper to continue doing that and export your excess.

Thanks @Solarchaser my heating is oil so I think it is worth using a diverter at current prices, if the price drops then I would recalculate. 

I think I have settled on no battery (still open to being swayed by compelling reasons). Feels that the payback side of it doesn't stack up (using the calculator, battery and 5.5p SEG = 12.4 years) and I could put the money in a savings account to get ~£250/yr currently. I think my biggest lingering thought was getting it now vs never due to the 20% tax of getting it later.

Alnat1

The diverter probably depends how much hot water you need for an average day. We decided against it as we realised that our use is mainly for 2 showers a day. We use the gas boiler to heat the water for 40 minutes a day and over summer we were using 3-4kWh, a little more now the incoming water is colder. 

If you prefer to have a full tank of 60C water at all times, then a diverter might be worth it but you're likely to be using gas to heat water over winter anyway.

Niv

Alnat1 said:

The diverter probably depends how much hot water you need for an average day. We decided against it as we realised that our use is mainly for 2 showers a day. We use the gas boiler to heat the water for 40 minutes a day and over summer we were using 3-4kWh, a little more now the incoming water is colder. 

If you prefer to have a full tank of 60C water at all times, then a diverter might be worth it but you're likely to be using gas to heat water over winter anyway.

I have mentioned it a couple of times, but i know detail can be lost in long threads, but I have oil which put a different dynamic on a diverter.

The other half does like a bath so there will be a greater draw on the hot water than just showers (unfortunately).

I did some rough calcs and it should take about 6 months to pay for the diverter with oil savings (maybe a little longer depending on oil price) so even if it becomes better not to use it for some periods it is unlikely to have made a 'loss' over its lifetime.

powerful_Rogue

Niv said:

Solarchaser said:

At 3100kwh annually, id say go with solar and diverter.
Worth noting though, if you normally heat your water with gas, you may find its cheaper to continue doing that and export your excess.

Thanks @Solarchaser my heating is oil so I think it is worth using a diverter at current prices, if the price drops then I would recalculate. 

I think I have settled on no battery (still open to being swayed by compelling reasons). Feels that the payback side of it doesn't stack up (using the calculator, battery and 5.5p SEG = 12.4 years) and I could put the money in a savings account to get ~£250/yr currently. I think my biggest lingering thought was getting it now vs never due to the 20% tax of getting it later.

Very foggy where I am today. So far only produced 1kWh via solar PV. It's a nice feeling knowing the house is being run via the battery that I charged up last night for 12p per kWh, rather then paying 34p per kWh today had I not had it.

Batteries are like marmite, some love them, some hate them. I was on the fence, however so glad I went for them, especially with that 20% VAT saving. Who knows what the electric will rise to come April, keeping in mind, without the government intervention, we would be on around 60p+ per kWh.

Niv

powerful_Rogue said:

Niv said:

Solarchaser said:

At 3100kwh annually, id say go with solar and diverter.
Worth noting though, if you normally heat your water with gas, you may find its cheaper to continue doing that and export your excess.

Thanks @Solarchaser my heating is oil so I think it is worth using a diverter at current prices, if the price drops then I would recalculate. 

I think I have settled on no battery (still open to being swayed by compelling reasons). Feels that the payback side of it doesn't stack up (using the calculator, battery and 5.5p SEG = 12.4 years) and I could put the money in a savings account to get ~£250/yr currently. I think my biggest lingering thought was getting it now vs never due to the 20% tax of getting it later.

Very foggy where I am today. So far only produced 1kWh via solar PV. It's a nice feeling knowing the house is being run via the battery that I charged up last night for 12p per kWh, rather then paying 34p per kWh today had I not had it.

Batteries are like marmite, some love them, some hate them. I was on the fence, however so glad I went for them, especially with that 20% VAT saving. Who knows what the electric will rise to come April, keeping in mind, without the government intervention, we would be on around 60p+ per kWh.

Do you have an EV? I ask as the only tariffs I have seen that allow for a battery to be charged overnight at a cheap rate requires an EV. If not, what tariff are you on if you don't mind saying?

powerful_Rogue

Niv said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Niv said:

Solarchaser said:

At 3100kwh annually, id say go with solar and diverter.
Worth noting though, if you normally heat your water with gas, you may find its cheaper to continue doing that and export your excess.

Thanks @Solarchaser my heating is oil so I think it is worth using a diverter at current prices, if the price drops then I would recalculate. 

I think I have settled on no battery (still open to being swayed by compelling reasons). Feels that the payback side of it doesn't stack up (using the calculator, battery and 5.5p SEG = 12.4 years) and I could put the money in a savings account to get ~£250/yr currently. I think my biggest lingering thought was getting it now vs never due to the 20% tax of getting it later.

Very foggy where I am today. So far only produced 1kWh via solar PV. It's a nice feeling knowing the house is being run via the battery that I charged up last night for 12p per kWh, rather then paying 34p per kWh today had I not had it.

Batteries are like marmite, some love them, some hate them. I was on the fence, however so glad I went for them, especially with that 20% VAT saving. Who knows what the electric will rise to come April, keeping in mind, without the government intervention, we would be on around 60p+ per kWh.

Do you have an EV? I ask as the only tariffs I have seen that allow for a battery to be charged overnight at a cheap rate requires an EV. If not, what tariff are you on if you don't mind saying?

Economy 7 also offers a cheap rate for overnight charging, especially EDF at the moment. Bulb also offer an EV tariff where you don't need to have an EV to qualify.