Working from abroad, manger refused request

mjm3346

Effectively 6 weeks off with almost no notice - should be no chance same for dealing with any personal information for uk citizens while abroad. 

penners324

If I was his boss I'd say no and if you continue to annoy me with this absurd request, I'd start disciplinary proceedings 

DullGreyGuy

It all comes down to the employer and their policies. There are a raft of considerations from employment law, taxation, exporting data, de facto overseas branches etc that may result in them saying no.

During one of the lockdowns, cant remember which one, it came to light that some had decided to work from abroad without informing anyone when one such person's laptops broke and they were told a courier would do a swap out and had to come clean that they werent at their UK address. Company wide comms went out saying all employees had 2 weeks to get back to the UK if working from overseas.

Thankfully I am not an employee and so have worked from overseas for much of Covid but still as a non-employee one client had issue because of their policy that data doesnt leave the UK or EEA

Grumpy_chap

diystarter7 said:

nephew works in the public sector and office based
request for a 6 weeks away from the office.

He works flexi hours, office based
He can work between the hours of 7-30am and 7pm and min of 4 hours daily and doing a 35 hour week Mon to Friday.

he is allowed for WFH  one day a week 

I think this whole case was really answered in the first sentence by the OP - the individual works in an office based job.
That, pretty much, is the end of it.

The comments about the flexibility in hours still relate to the context of an office based job.

WFH one day per week seems like more of a concession than preference of the employer.

Even for jobs that are now, post COVID, fully WFH, it is quite common for employers to have restrictions on location for the individual.  The big reasons for the business are generally:

1. Ability for individuals to attend the office when required and / or team meetings at a non-office location
2. No desire to have to be concerned with variations in tax rules and / or employment laws
3. Need to secure data protection - it is common for contracts to stipulate constraints on data processing outside UK / EEA.

One company I do a large amount of work for changed their policy for WFH roles post-COVID to "anywhere on the UK".  That was a move from "anywhere commutable to office" and driven by the shortage of resource.  That is now coming rather unstuck as the return to office and requirement for staff to be in the office one or two days each week - those staff that are remote and far away all now seem to be looking at opportunities.

There were some people that said, well if you can be based in Scotland, Cornwall or NI, why not Southern Spain?  Well, apart form the specific items I listed above, once you allow one individual to work abroad, where do you stop?  The OP's nephew says abroad - Portugal and mentions the lack of issue with time difference.  The thing is that can be very difficult for an employer to manage - where do you draw the line without being accused of discriminatory?

Those that wish to pursue the line that the WFH can be done from anywhere - and there seemed to be many in the period straight after the COVID lockdowns - might wish to be careful what they ask for.  These individuals seem to have the ideas they can take UK salary levels but then work anywhere.  Well, the employer might just decide, if they can have staff located anywhere, to engage staff located where the cost base is much lower and take the saving for the business profits.

The references to Matt Hancock seem unhelpful to the case.
I also see little point to engage the Union.
In fact, my advice to the Nephew would be to forget the whole thing, not mention it and, if it is brought up by the Manager, to simply shrug it off as having been a jokey suggestion (hence the reference to Matt Hancock - wasn't that outrageous!).

Ath_Wat

I only just noticed that they are only allowed to work from home one day a week!  I assumed anyone wanting to work abroad was entirely home based, and I still thought it was an unrealistic request.

If they are only allowed to work from home one day a week it's absolutely crazy to expect this will be granted and kick up a fuss if it isn't.

biscan25

I worked for 2 weeks in Spain in January, combining work with a running camp. This was not a problem as work is fully remote, and data is not taken out of the EEA. 
Plenty of people in my line of work go abroad in winter. 6 weeks+ in the Azores is common, and nowhere near tax residency threshold.
If I took my laptop and data outside of the EEA I'd be sacked.

Smithcom

diystarter7 said:

Talking to a fav nephew last night who  works in the public sector and office based on his request for a 6 weeks away from the office.

My nephew said he would take take the odd few days off and a week when over there for 6 weeks and hoping to travel on Friday after work and return on a day off. He works flexi hours, office based inc making phone assessments and almost always chats with other colleagues/clients via phone/emails etc and face to face is via choice only and they have video chat facility. He can work between the hours of 7-30am and 7pm and min of 4 hours daily and doing a 35 hour week Mon to Friday.

Nephew said to the manager that MP/Matt Hancock  is half way across the world and on tv and can manage, why can't he be allowed the 6 weeks away from his desk. ATM, he is allowed for WFH  one day a week when others get more and the manager's response is, "we need someone in the office." However, there are always other staff there inc the manager most of the time.

I've told him to counsult his union rep on how to put in a written request for 6 weeks away from the office and he is only going to Portugal where I think there  is no time difference and even if he went to another country that was  a 4/5 hour difference he'd managed

So he is to consult his union rep and use Matt Hnacock as an example and demonstrate his work not be affected.

What do you think, any tips/etc, please?

(I said go for it and encourage others but be warned they may see him as a trouble maker)

There's so much about this that is wrong.

Since when did employees get to dictate where they work from.

And as for encouraging others, I simply have no words.

TheSpiddalKid

It may be worthwhile having a read through this, completed by Capsticks for the NHS on the legal implications of working from abroad (hint, there are quite a few).

https://www.nhsemployers.org/news/new-legal-guidance-nhs-staff-working-remotely-overseas
 

Undervalued

Smithcom said:

diystarter7 said:

Talking to a fav nephew last night who  works in the public sector and office based on his request for a 6 weeks away from the office.

My nephew said he would take take the odd few days off and a week when over there for 6 weeks and hoping to travel on Friday after work and return on a day off. He works flexi hours, office based inc making phone assessments and almost always chats with other colleagues/clients via phone/emails etc and face to face is via choice only and they have video chat facility. He can work between the hours of 7-30am and 7pm and min of 4 hours daily and doing a 35 hour week Mon to Friday.

Nephew said to the manager that MP/Matt Hancock  is half way across the world and on tv and can manage, why can't he be allowed the 6 weeks away from his desk. ATM, he is allowed for WFH  one day a week when others get more and the manager's response is, "we need someone in the office." However, there are always other staff there inc the manager most of the time.

I've told him to counsult his union rep on how to put in a written request for 6 weeks away from the office and he is only going to Portugal where I think there  is no time difference and even if he went to another country that was  a 4/5 hour difference he'd managed

So he is to consult his union rep and use Matt Hnacock as an example and demonstrate his work not be affected.

What do you think, any tips/etc, please?

(I said go for it and encourage others but be warned they may see him as a trouble maker)

There's so much about this that is wrong.

Since when did employees get to dictate where they work from.

And as for encouraging others, I simply have no words.

Well obviously anybody applying for a job can make it a condition of acceptance. If their skill are in enough demand the employer may accommodate them, alternatively they can employ somebody else. So too can an existing employee say "let me work from XXX or I will resign", it all comes down to supply and demand.

Also, in most relocation scenarios some employees with be unwilling to move. If it is a long distance they may well be entitled to redundancy as an alternative.

I do agree though that the chances of this OP's nephew getting what he wants are slim to say the least!

noitsnotme

annabanana82 said:

Think the OP used to be here under a different guise or two, seems very familiar 

100%.  They’ve been called out on it several times before.