Breaking a train trip

skycatcher

Hi,
I'm going to Leicester from Birmingham international and planning on getting an off peak rtn (arr thurs dep sun). You have to change at Birmingham new st and i was wondering if I'm able to leave the station at new st to visit Birmingham and then go back and get my connection to Leicester?

Billxx

No easy answer here, it will likely depend on the operator and the type of ticket.  I have bought tickets from Thameslink before that did allow breaks, and also tickets that did not.

daveyjp

With an off peak ticket a break of journey is permtted in both directions, unless the ticket has a restriction code.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/G2R.aspx

Just ensure you travel within the off peak hours.

MilesT6060842

Always read the restriction codes and basic descriptions of the ticket types on the National Rail website, it's all there, clearly stated.

Single tickets tends to be a bit more restrictive on breaks, as a rule, and some tickets allow a break on the return leg but not the outward. 

Advance tickets (fixed train) generally don't allow a break a all.  If the itinerary has a "natural" change/break in it (including crossing London), usually you will be allowed beyond the gateline during that break, but may need assistance to get out and in as the barriers might not automatically accept the ticket.  For cross London tickets you can't have a "break" as you travel on the tube (enforced by the TfL gates), but can before/after you use the "tube" leg, or just pay your own tube fares/use other transport to get a break in the time available/within the flexibility of choice of train of your rail tickets; you don't have to use the included tube fare.

One of the advantages of having a "split ticket" (other than cheaper fare) is you can break at the split point(s) regardless of what the individual tickets say (worth checking manually if buying the ticket as a split ticket with your break as the split point is the same price or cheaper as a straightforward ticket).  When you buy any split ticket, it's best to buy all the elements in one transaction so it is seen as one itinerary for compensation purposes.

One other "hack" is if your proposed break is near the endpoint of the journey, and your ticket does not allow a split, then see how much a return ticket would be to travel backwards from your endpoint to where you want to break.  To be compliant with ticketing rules, you would need to actually travel to end point and then come back, no "travelling short" even if you intend to continue onwards and you have a ticket which mentions the station you are exiting at--you might want to plan to arrive at your end point a bit early to allow for this. "Doubling back" is generally not allowed within one leg of one ticket**, but is OK if you have a separate ticket.  There are a few instances on the network where doubling back with multiple tickets is another way to get a cheaper fare (like a split ticket) but the "split ticketing" websites generally won't find or offer this (I have another post in the forums where I highlight a specific example of "Beyond and Back" splitting which consistently reduces the fares on a specific route, because of how the specific operator chooses to set up Advances.)

** There are numerous complexities on routing through specific junctions used when calculating fares in the official book of rules--which is no longer a definitively a "book" but a computer programme i.e. "computer says no")--and "easements" to allow alternative routing including a few cases of "doubling back".  The major routing rules and the majority of the routing easements are officially described in human readable form of somewhere (part of an official set of PDFs which describe all in one place how fares should be calculated, and also ticket types, restrictions, breaks), but I can't recall exactly where. The implementation of the fair rule book is in the Network Rail/ATOC software--I think this software is actually maintained by trainline but shared out to all other operator websites and other train booking agencies--and the software is the absolute judge of calculation and conditions which needs to be complied with for a valid journey.

As a contrast, some of the cost reducing hacks used on the trains in the UK and specifically disallowed for major airlines on their conditions of carriage, and the airlines do check more closely.  The usual rule for complex air tickets is you have to travel each leg of the itinerary as booked or risk getting the remaining parts of the itinerary cancelled with no refund, and more complex schemes of using multiple overlapping itinerarys tend to be spotted by airline booking systems and loyalty programmes (forfeiture of loyalty benefits for hacking the system has happened).  If you want to be clever with airline ticket booking, then best book on different airlines that are not part of the same "alliance" and potentially forego earning loyalty benefits (don't quote loyalty programme membership details on booking).

outtatune

You can find the restrictions on all the different tickets here

https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=LEI&dest=BHI

MilesT6060842

outtatune said:

You can find the restrictions on all the different tickets here

https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=LEI&dest=BHI

That website seems to show (in some cases) the lowest Advanced fare that will currently be offered on the route and the steps that the fare will increase as allocations sell through.  I have also spotted some data where there seems to be some workarounds for issues (e.g. an standard class Advance fare of £999,i.e. around 4-5 times the most expensive peak anytime fare for the route)

Still_not_an_expert

Last week I bought an anytime return from Nuneaton to Wolverhampton.  Wasn't checked outwards, platform 10 to 7 at New St, so no barriers, and then I was involved in an event for a new train, so never left Wolverhampton station.

Returning to New St, I deliberately used the outward QR ticket on the phone to exit and re-entry via the barriers. It worked.

If you want to leave the station, show your ticket and tell staff you want to get food from a particular outlet (Pret, M&S..) and get them to open the barrier. 

yorkie2

skycatcher said:

Hi,
I'm going to Leicester from Birmingham international and planning on getting an off peak rtn (arr thurs dep sun). You have to change at Birmingham new st and i was wondering if I'm able to leave the station at new st to visit Birmingham and then go back and get my connection to Leicester?

From Birmingham Intl to Leicester, on a weekday or weekend? What sort of time are you likely to travel in each direction? Are you returning same day or at a later date?

As a general rule the answer is you can leave the station.