Medical emergency on train

Kiko4564

Hi everyone, I'm curious as to what you should do in the event of a medical emergency on a train. I would personally avoid operating the passenger alarm unless I had absolutely no other choice, and even then I would rather wait until the next station then pull the alarm whilst the train is between stations. The only exceptions to this are if the train stops at a station (but without releasing the doors) on the way for operational reasons, or if the train is already in a station. Instead I would rather call 999. But the problem is, which service would I require? Would it be the Police, who are best suited to issues requiring local knowledge in my opinion (most likely yes), or would it be the Ambulance service directly. Either service could talk to the other if necessary, but this will cause a delay which is best avoided if possible.

On Greater Anglia trains, this is the answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUQ6BVquZ8&t=68s

But what if you're travelling on a train operated by another Train Operating Company (TOC)? What about GBR trains once the semi-nationalisation that the government has proposed eventually gets under way?

Langerhan

As far as I know, every train line will tell you to wait until you get to a station. I've done this before (a passenger passed out and we couldn't wake them up), and the station staff were very responsive and got an ambulance there in under a minute. If I was on a train with longer delays between stations, I would call 999 and ask them to connect me to the relevant service - they'll know if it would be better served by police or by the ambulance service.

Kiko4564

Langerhan said:

As far as I know, every train line will tell you to wait until you get to a station. I've done this before (a passenger passed out and we couldn't wake them up), and the station staff were very responsive and got an ambulance there in under a minute. If I was on a train with longer delays between stations, I would call 999 and ask them to connect me to the relevant service - they'll know if it would be better served by police or by the ambulance service.

You mean if you explain the situation and ask the Operator which service you require? There's only one problem with that, it causes unnecessary delay. Personally I'd just request the Police, in the event that they need to call Ambulance Control then they can do so. In any event, if you don't know which service you require, it may well be protocol for the BT Operator (all 999 calls made on any network are now answered by BT Operators, even if made on a mobile phone) to connect you to the Police. Even if you need to speak to Ambulance Control, the worst case scenario is that the Police control would either ask them to call you back, or put you through to the BT Operator who can put you through to them.

Langerhan

Kiko4564 said:

Langerhan said:

As far as I know, every train line will tell you to wait until you get to a station. I've done this before (a passenger passed out and we couldn't wake them up), and the station staff were very responsive and got an ambulance there in under a minute. If I was on a train with longer delays between stations, I would call 999 and ask them to connect me to the relevant service - they'll know if it would be better served by police or by the ambulance service.

You mean if you explain the situation and ask the Operator which service you require? There's only one problem with that, it causes unnecessary delay. Personally I'd just request the Police, in the event that they need to call Ambulance Control then they can do so. In any event, if you don't know which service you require, it may well be protocol for the BT Operator (all 999 calls made on any network are now answered by BT Operators, even if made on a mobile phone) to connect you to the Police. Even if you need to speak to Ambulance Control, the worst case scenario is that the Police control would either ask them to call you back, or put you through to the BT Operator who can put you through to them.

It would take less than a minute to say "I'm on a train, someone's breathing but non-responsive, we're 20 minutes away from Colchester, I assume that means we'll need an ambulance" and let the operator connect you to the ambulance service if so. You seemed concerned about whether to ask for police or ambulance - I let you know there was another possibility.

Kiko4564

Langerhan said:

Kiko4564 said:

Langerhan said:

As far as I know, every train line will tell you to wait until you get to a station. I've done this before (a passenger passed out and we couldn't wake them up), and the station staff were very responsive and got an ambulance there in under a minute. If I was on a train with longer delays between stations, I would call 999 and ask them to connect me to the relevant service - they'll know if it would be better served by police or by the ambulance service.

You mean if you explain the situation and ask the Operator which service you require? There's only one problem with that, it causes unnecessary delay. Personally I'd just request the Police, in the event that they need to call Ambulance Control then they can do so. In any event, if you don't know which service you require, it may well be protocol for the BT Operator (all 999 calls made on any network are now answered by BT Operators, even if made on a mobile phone) to connect you to the Police. Even if you need to speak to Ambulance Control, the worst case scenario is that the Police control would either ask them to call you back, or put you through to the BT Operator who can put you through to them.

It would take less than a minute to say "I'm on a train, someone's breathing but non-responsive, we're 20 minutes away from Colchester, I assume that means we'll need an ambulance" and let the operator connect you to the ambulance service if so. You seemed concerned about whether to ask for police or ambulance - I let you know there was another possibility.

I see, thanks. Yes, I see your point. However I think this would be a question best aimed at a train company other than Greater Anglia.

Edit: For The Record: I have emailed GTR (Govia Thameslink Railway aka Thameslink, Great Northern, and Southern), the address that I received the response from was comments@southernrailway.com, and the response I got from a "Customer Relations Advisor", was the following:

"Thank you for your response. This would depend on severity of the incident and there are several ways to report this, as my colleague has mentioned. 

If this is a medical emergency, and there are staff on board, then these would be your first point of contact, as they are fully trained for any medical situation. If there are no staff, except for the driver and it a serious medical event the either the cord or the button, please be aware that this will stop the train causing a possible delay to get any treatment. 

You can also contact our Twitter team on @SoutherRailUK who can arrange for any emergency services to be at the next station to meet the train. Also 999 can be used, but they will need to know where the next stop is and the details of the emergency. We also have the British Transport Police who may get to any point to meet the train. Their number is 0800 405040 with all the details. Or you can text them on 61016.

I do hope this now helps and thank you for getting back in touch."

My points are the following: I wouldn't want to activate the Passcom (aka the "emergency alarm") since as mentioned above it would needlessly delay the train which you do not want to do when every second counts, there aren't always staff onboard a Driver Only Operated train, even on a guard operated train the guard isn't always available in your part of the train or publicly visible, sometimes shouting through the rear cab door works.

However, this leaves the question of what if they're in another unit or don't respond to you), I'd rather not rely on Twitter (you might not have internet access immediately available or your phone's battery might be flat or other issues, plus there's no guarantee that your Tweet will be picked up ASAP which is important when every second counts).

I'd rather not rely on calling Ambulance Control via 999 since they work on a "dispatch to location" (like with the Fire Brigade) process, not a "we figure it out" process (like with the Police), and calling 0800405040 or texting 61016 for the BTP isn't appropriate since it's a non-emergency number and will involve a considerable time on hold which isn't appropriate for the reason I've previously mentioned, also your phone might not have credit on it to send a text (SMS) message to the BTP which you will need.

Therefore, this logically leaves calling 999 and requesting the Police as the best option, they can request any other services that may need to be involved when dealing with the incident, including: the BTP, the local Ambulance Service, Network Rail, the TOC you're travelling on, the Fire Brigade, and whoever else needs to be made aware of it.

Andy_L

You're over thinking this

If its a medical emergency (as opposed to someone just feeling ill) then hit the emergency alarm, the driver/guard/conductor will answer, tell them the situation - they have been trained to deal with this and can enact their rehearsed procedures, including getting the station staff to liase with the emergency services.

If its a medical emergency then, on a 999 call, you want an ambulance

Kiko4564

Andy_L said:

You're over thinking this

If its a medical emergency (as opposed to someone just feeling ill) then hit the emergency alarm, the driver/guard/conductor will answer, tell them the situation - they have been trained to deal with this and can enact their rehearsed procedures, including getting the station staff to liase with the emergency services.

If its a medical emergency then, on a 999 call, you want an ambulance

Only problem, what if the emergency alarm is a red lever that stops the train as opposed to an intercom to the driver? You don't want to unnecessarily delay the train as this will delay help getting to the patient.

SiliconChip

Kiko4564 said:

Andy_L said:

You're over thinking this

If its a medical emergency (as opposed to someone just feeling ill) then hit the emergency alarm, the driver/guard/conductor will answer, tell them the situation - they have been trained to deal with this and can enact their rehearsed procedures, including getting the station staff to liase with the emergency services.

If its a medical emergency then, on a 999 call, you want an ambulance

Only problem, what if the emergency alarm is a red lever that stops the train as opposed to an intercom to the driver? You don't want to unnecessarily delay the train as this will delay help getting to the patient.

Are there any trains where this is the only option? I was thinking about this while standing near the door on a very overcrowded train a few weeks ago and while there was a red handle to stop the train there was also a button to press to contact train staff.

NBLondon

What Andy_L said....

You alert the train staff by the most obvious means.  They then radio for assistance at the next available point.

If train staff don't respond - then call 999 and describe the situation as Langerhan said.  Let the Call Handler decide who to send - it's their job not yours.

I've been in that situation once.  Commuter Train (SouthEastern) and a passenger collapsed.  I was nearest the intercom, so I alerted the driver.  Luckily we were still in a station, so the driver called the station staff who sent a first aider down the platform and called an ambulance.  The passenger was actually sitting up by the time the paramedics arrived.

NBLondon

Kiko4564 said:

On Greater Anglia trains, this is the answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUQ6BVquZ8&t=68s

Looking at that video - I suspect it's aimed at people who think "I feel a bit faint" is an emergency - or forestalling it by getting help at the station instead of getting on a train.

SiliconChip said:

Are there any trains where this is the only option? I was thinking about this while standing near the door on a very overcrowded train a few weeks ago and while there was a red handle to stop the train there was also a button to press to contact train staff.

That's a good question.  Maybe every train should have a "call staff for help" button as well as a "Slam the brakes on - we're about to hit a cow" button.    Different rolling stock, different TOC makes it less obvious.

Cyclamen

*Train guards have first aid training ... send someone to look for them.. one person each way up /down train.

*There is an assistance button by wheelchair bays.. this 'should' but doesnt always work fast call guard or operate ain intercom.. send another passenger for that. 

* other passengers may be medics calmly ask in a carriage

* 999 .. it gets the appropriate help waiting at next station..

* there may be intercoms elsewhere.. only ever travelled asa  wheelchair user.. but worth familiarising yourself


* check it is an emergency .. not a feeling whoozy, upset etc.. in latter  case get off or call station staff at next stop.. a hand stopping door closing is an effective way to summon help without train going without you. (as a wheelchair user this is my go to on the very rare occasion the ramps are forgotten by sttaion staff)