Will they get rid of or reduce full state pension?

JoeCrystal

No, will stay

Have a look at how Australia do it for example. We seem to follow their path regarding auto enrollment. However their State pension is very different since it is funded wholly out of general taxation so must meet a lot more rules such as assets, income tests and the fact you actually must live in Australia at the time of claiming as well and of citizenship as well or some form of permanent residence visa (not sure about that).

But I am sure whatever the plan that Government undertake, it wil always going to be less and less generous. (And perhaps stop issuing contributions to people who never paid for it or get them for free or indeed, extremely cheaply for overseas employees and residents as well)

londonlights

Yes, will reduce

No uk government would ever get rid of the basic state pension for everyone.
Most likely because the outcry would be too great, it would make their party unelectable for at least two decades and would also hit members of their own households & extended families in a manner likely to inconvenience them personally.

But they are very likely to attempt to reduce the monthly sums provided and restrict eligibility to full state pension. 
Both through restrictive criterias specifying minimum years of national insurance contributions or credits/uk residency, maximum gaps in national insurance history and means testing above a certain level. 

I suspect that many ladies born during the late 50s to early 60s will discover that they are either ineligible for full state pension or will have lots of paperwork mysteriously go missing and have duplicate copies requested by the DWP in order to process their claims.
If so, they will have to be very persistent and have access to very savvy lawyers to have the matter resolved in their favour.     

SusieT

I think they are more likely to restrict voluntary payments to tax years when the person was resident in the UK. At the moment "I" could be paying to the UK state pension while living and working abroad and accruing a pension there as well. While relatively speaking there are not a huge amount of people paying voluntary contributions, it would slightly reduce the cost. 

The_Green_Hornet

No, will stay

At the last general election all four main UK political parties pledged in their manifestos to keep the state pension triple lock, probably as they see it as a vote winner ,and it is one of the few things that has cross party consensus.

Personally, I can't see any party getting rid of the state pension. Any changes to it will be as they now in that you will have to work longer before you get it.

Silvertabby

No, will stay

JoeCrystal said:

Have a look at how Australia do it for example. We seem to follow their path regarding auto enrollment. However their State pension is very different since it is funded wholly out of general taxation so must meet a lot more rules such as assets, income tests and the fact you actually must live in Australia at the time of claiming as well and of citizenship as well or some form of permanent residence visa (not sure about that).

But I am sure whatever the plan that Government undertake, it wil always going to be less and less generous. (And perhaps stop issuing contributions to people who never paid for it or get them for free or indeed, extremely cheaply for overseas employees and residents as well)

I believe that the Australian State pension has been means tested from day 1.

Actually, the UK State pension was means tested when it was first introduced in 1919.  And it wasn't payable until age 70, for both men and women.  The means test was dropped in the 1920s, and I really can't see it being re-introduced.  

I agree that allowing oversees residents to pay voluntary contributions - often Class 2 - seems to be overly generous.  Room there for savings.

Of course, the biggest State pension savings plan in recent years ( the re-equalisation of State pension ages not being 'recent') was the switch from the old basic pension plus SP2 to the new single tier pension in 2016.  Once we are past the (lengthy) transitional period, the State pension will be capped at £185 per week instead of the old £310 per week (even more if the pensioner had deferred payment under the old, higher, rate of 10% + per year).  OK, not many actually racked up the full £310, but there are a lot of 'old' pensioners out there on more than £200 per week.

The biggest savings, however, will be when all new pensioners eventually  get the full single tier pension of £185. That is set at a couple of £s over the means tested pension credit limit, meaning no-one will qualify for PC... or any of the myriad of additional benefits that being in receipt of PC currently lead to.

p00hsticks

MrE1 said:

marlot said:

I suspect it could become means-tested at some point.

That's a valid point! Would anyone have any opinions or evidence on the likelihood of state pension becoming means tested?

I think the general view is that much of the potential savings arising from means testing are eaten in up in the additional resources required to carry it out. And it leads to some people not claiming what they are due because they don't want people priying into their affairs (there are pensioners now who take great umbrage in the State Pension being described as a 'benefit', even though that is how it's classed).

So in my view means testing of the State Pension won't happen.As someone else pointed out earlier up this thread, there are other more subtle ways of clawing back money from the better off pensioners - for example changes to the income tax or NI regimes. And if the overall pension budget needs to be reduced I think it more likely to happen by  a gradual reduction in it;s value - e,g by removing the triple lock. The introduction of the new State Pension has already capped what people can get down from the days when people could build up State Pensions of £300+

Like others, I think tightening up the qualifications  for a full state pensions would be a good money saving exercise. I know people on this board make use of it (and I don't blame them) but it seems ludicrous to me that people living abroad or claiming to be dog walkers and the like can build up a full State Pension entitlement  by  simply paying voluntary Class 2 NI.

p00hsticks

Silvertabby said:

JoeCrystal said:

Have a look at how Australia do it for example. We seem to follow their path regarding auto enrollment. However their State pension is very different since it is funded wholly out of general taxation so must meet a lot more rules such as assets, income tests and the fact you actually must live in Australia at the time of claiming as well and of citizenship as well or some form of permanent residence visa (not sure about that).

But I am sure whatever the plan that Government undertake, it wil always going to be less and less generous. (And perhaps stop issuing contributions to people who never paid for it or get them for free or indeed, extremely cheaply for overseas employees and residents as well)

Actually, the UK State pension was means tested when it was first introduced in 1919.  And it wasn't payable until age 70, for both men and women.  The means test was dropped in the 1920s, and I really can't see it being re-introduced.  

Not just means tested - all applications had to go before a Pensions commitee to decide if you were 'of good character' - for example, I think anyone who had been convicted of drunkenness in recent years was ineligible.

Silvertabby

No, will stay

p00hsticks said:

Silvertabby said:

JoeCrystal said:

Have a look at how Australia do it for example. We seem to follow their path regarding auto enrollment. However their State pension is very different since it is funded wholly out of general taxation so must meet a lot more rules such as assets, income tests and the fact you actually must live in Australia at the time of claiming as well and of citizenship as well or some form of permanent residence visa (not sure about that).

But I am sure whatever the plan that Government undertake, it wil always going to be less and less generous. (And perhaps stop issuing contributions to people who never paid for it or get them for free or indeed, extremely cheaply for overseas employees and residents as well)

Actually, the UK State pension was means tested when it was first introduced in 1919.  And it wasn't payable until age 70, for both men and women.  The means test was dropped in the 1920s, and I really can't see it being re-introduced.  

Not just means tested - all applications had to go before a Pensions commitee to decide if you were 'of good character' - for example, I think anyone who had been convicted of drunkenness in recent years was ineligible.

Yes, you are right!  Apart from that, I imagine that very few people actually qualified for that first pension, mainly because those poor enough to pass the means test would have struggled to reach the grand old age of 70.

MarkCarnage

It was rumoured that the Tories were going to abolish the State pension for all - including current recipients - just before the 1997 General Election.

A moment's thought would have revealed this to be groundless surely? It would have been the biggest political self inflicted wound in history given the demographics of Tory support. 

The need to create a better means of funding retirement is real, but one which will take decades to achieve if at all....the actual policy statement seemed to outline a 'double lock' effectively, stating that NI would be ring fenced to an invested fund, but the outcome underpinned by a floor of basic State Pension. Quite long way away from the supposed 'rumour'.....step forward Alistair Campbell I suspect.,....

NedS

No, will stay

The_Green_Hornet said:

At the last general election all four main UK political parties pledged in their manifestos to keep the state pension triple lock, probably as they see it as a vote winner ,and it is one of the few things that has cross party consensus.

Personally, I can't see any party getting rid of the state pension. Any changes to it will be as they now in that you will have to work longer before you get it.

I agree - more of a vote loser to make changes than a vote winner if everyone is pledging to keep it.

Any changes will be introduced slowly over a generation and targeted at those who don't care right now - e.g, if they were to raise the state retirement age to 70 for those born after 2000 - I can't imagine any 18-22 your old who can vote will care that much as pensions aren't high on their list of priorities at that age. Much like they have already done with the age creeping up from 60/65 to 68.

The state pension is a benefit. It is one of the few benefits that can be earned and paid when you are not resident in the country. I expect that may be an area where the rules could be tightened.