Rhetoric media on state gold plated pensions

bostonerimus

If public sector benefits are better than those in the private sector I would hope that private sector workers would lobby for better benefits themselves rather than to criticize the "better benefits" of their fellow workers. Of course anger at public sector benefits is most often seen in certain UK newspapers and news outlets and then picked up by politicians so take it all with a bucket of salt.  Remember when the introduction of DC pensions to replace DB pensions was sold to employees as an improvement...well I suppose it was for the employers.

CorseyEdge

I'm sure I read that the overall cost of the Civil Service Pension Schemes is covered in totality from the contributions of all the Civil Servants in the schemes, and is hence net neutral to the public. There may even be a claim that the contributions exceed the out flow of pensions in payment (e.g. the 2018 valuation of the schemes identified a 2% 'over contribution' by scheme members, the reduction of contributions was never implemented)

Cus

dunstonh said:

Really just stirs up contentions on private sector workers and their DC pensions against (often lower paid by category) for LG, civil service, NHS, etc., former workers. 

It used to be the case that the DB pension for the public sector was a reward for a life of public service on a salary that was lower than the private sector.

However, public sector pay is mostly higher than private sector pay and has been for some time.    Yes, there are exceptions, but in general, that is the case.

So, there is the potential for conflict in media articles there.  Then if you factor in the usually well-paid public sector jobs going on strike for even more money, it just plays into the media agenda nicely.

However, I hadn't noticed any particular increase in the usual rhetoric. 

You say: 
However, public sector pay is mostly higher than private sector pay and has been for some time

How do you know this please? I am surprised.

Andy_L

CorseyEdge said:

I'm sure I read that the overall cost of the Civil Service Pension Schemes is covered in totality from the contributions of all the Civil Servants in the schemes, and is hence net neutral to the public. There may even be a claim that the contributions exceed the out flow of pensions in payment (e.g. the 2018 valuation of the schemes identified a 2% 'over contribution' by scheme members, the reduction of contributions was never implemented)

AIUI the NHS scheme is, currently, covered by employee and employer contributions while the CS scheme is in deficit.
The difference is because the NHS has been increasing staff numbers while the CS has been cutting numbers

Andy_L

Cus said:

dunstonh said:

Really just stirs up contentions on private sector workers and their DC pensions against (often lower paid by category) for LG, civil service, NHS, etc., former workers. 

It used to be the case that the DB pension for the public sector was a reward for a life of public service on a salary that was lower than the private sector.

However, public sector pay is mostly higher than private sector pay and has been for some time.    Yes, there are exceptions, but in general, that is the case.

So, there is the potential for conflict in media articles there.  Then if you factor in the usually well-paid public sector jobs going on strike for even more money, it just plays into the media agenda nicely.

However, I hadn't noticed any particular increase in the usual rhetoric. 

You say: 
However, public sector pay is mostly higher than private sector pay and has been for some time

How do you know this please? I am surprised.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/articles/publicandprivatesectorearnings/2019

CorseyEdge

Latest OBR analysis of all public service pensions (net) costs is here - https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/public-service-pension-payments-net/

So further to my suggestion of net neutrality it looks like current forecast 'burden' to the tax payer is £2.5b (£49.7b payments minus £47.2b contributions) - that is around 0.1% of GDP, forecast to rise by 2027 to 0.2% of GDP.

Interesting analysis in the Ready Reckoner section of that report seems to indicate that increases in CPI can be offset by increasing wages in public service accordingly (assuming cost recovery via increased contributions)

arnoldy

Most people appreciate very much the public sector front line...dinner ladies, road sweepers, nurses, police, squaddies, firemen..etc.

But what they don't like is the standing army of quangos and back office "administrators" dressed as managers. And their final salary pensions for their jobs that have a tenuous link to front line delivery. Remember of the 1.3 million people + that work in the health service barely 400,000 are nurses and doctors. Scandal.

daveyjp

Cus said:

dunstonh said:

Really just stirs up contentions on private sector workers and their DC pensions against (often lower paid by category) for LG, civil service, NHS, etc., former workers. 

It used to be the case that the DB pension for the public sector was a reward for a life of public service on a salary that was lower than the private sector.

However, public sector pay is mostly higher than private sector pay and has been for some time.    Yes, there are exceptions, but in general, that is the case.

So, there is the potential for conflict in media articles there.  Then if you factor in the usually well-paid public sector jobs going on strike for even more money, it just plays into the media agenda nicely.

However, I hadn't noticed any particular increase in the usual rhetoric. 

You say: 
However, public sector pay is mostly higher than private sector pay and has been for some time

How do you know this please? I am surprised.

Many employees on low pay in the private sector are carrying out public sector duties. Home visit social care, endless low wage roles in hospitals, Government offices, Universities, schools, colleges etc.

Public sector pay is therefore higher because the lowest paid public sector jobs are outsourced to private sector companies.

arnoldy

daveyjp said:

Many employees on low pay in the private sector are carrying out public sector duties. Home visit social care, endless low wage roles in hospitals, Government offices, Universities, schools, colleges etc.

Public sector pay is therefore higher because the lowest paid public sector jobs are outsourced to private sector companies.

Yes they kept the hospital porters in NHS in many trusts and outsourced the clearers and broke the link between the cleaners and "their" ward.

Along with doctors and nurses the hospital cleaners probably have the biggest influence on clinical outcomes. Not a decision of the sharpest knifes in the draw.

  

frugal90

Don't think mine is especially gold plated. I worked as a teacher in middle management for 36.25 years. Pension is £22800 per year plus I got 3 times as a lump sum. Fortunately married to retired teacher , so comfortable compared to many.

It is the deal we signed up for. Those that complain go and do 36 plus years at the chalkface.