More - Old pensions of low value. Annuity or SIPP?

lucrecia15

Dunstonh - Yes you are correct, they are from the late 80s / early 90s. and paid into for 2 or 3 years. I understand financial markets are not great. The three specially that bother me are worth @ 20K, 20K and maybe £50/annum by predication. They are very small.

MallyGirl - I am pension poor but fortunately have money in bonds & stocks. In the next couple of years I want to do something with them, taking some sort of income however small. I don't see any point at my time of life in moving to another pension type arrangement. None or these are being paid into. I also unfortunately have 3 more pensions, only one which I will leave as is.

Albermarle - I haven't described the problem very well. As you see there are actually 6 pensions going on. Only one still active. Only one (final salary) will I keep. None have any great value 20 - 40K pots. The current one has death in service so worth keeping for now.

Here is a recent example Last year value 24K, this year 23K. Admins fees £187 . I understand the markets are not good, Do I defer again? do I lump together somehow? is it worth doing a SIPP this late in the game ? I could definitely move 4 into a 'lump' but what to do with it. The £50/annum I think I can take in entirety.

Thank you everyone for your replies. 

Apologies, I'm not finding posting very easy.

xylophone

Is your current pension a DB pension?

You also have a deferred DB pension?

The remaining four are DC pensions with no safeguarded benefits?

You are now aged between 55 and SPA?

Have you obtained a state pension forecast?

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

dunstonh

The three specially that bother me are worth @ 20K, 20K and maybe £50/annum by predication. They are very small.

The projections you get are synthetic calculations using a range of pessimistic assumptions.   They are not predictions.  The annual income figures are not to be relied on as they use the most expensive type of annuity (which hardly anyone ever buys) and they take a deduction to factor inflation into it to show it in today's spending power rather than actual money.  I have seen projections that are as much as 10x lower from the figures that are possible today, let alone in x number of years time.

The assumptions used in the calculations have been reduced a number of times over the years to give a pessimistic projection to encourage people to pay more into them and work on the basis that nobody is unhappy if they get more but are if they get less.

You can look to consolidate them into a modern pension if you feel the old pension is not viable.  However, do it for good reasons. 

Here is a recent example Last year value 24K, this year 23K. Admins fees £187 . I understand the markets are not good, Do I defer again?

£24k dropping to £23k is a 4.16% loss.  The markets fell around 15% in the early part of the year from their December high point.  June was the low point but July was one of the best Julys on record for growth.       You would have seen bigger drops in 2020 before it went on to recover.  And a similar size drop in Q4 2018 which recovered in 2019.    And a similar size drop over 2015 and early 2016 before recovery turned 2016 into one of the best growth years in the last 25 years.

What was the value of that pension in 2020 and 2019?    
Your earlier post indicated that they have been falling continuously.  Whereas your example is just one year and its a year you would expect to see a loss.     You would expect to see 2021 being a gain year along with 2020 and 2019.   If the pension was going down in each of those years then you need to investigate why.   However, I suspect you will find it went up in those years.

Albermarle

Why have you started a new thread instead of just continuing with the original one.? It has confused me anyway !

lucrecia15

Current - death in service.
Deferred benefits - not sure. I have deferred 2 x Abbey Life small pensions. I doubt they have anything to offer.
Think the 4 have no benefits.
I'm 63.
Yes and I need another 12 - 16 months on my state pension contributions to get the full contribution, due to being silly enough to going to university and paying not enough NI.
Thank you for your response.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

lucrecia15 said:

Current - death in service.
Deferred benefits - not sure. I have deferred 2 x Abbey Life small pensions. I doubt they have anything to offer.
Think the 4 have no benefits.
I'm 63.
Yes and I need another 12 - 16 months on my state pension contributions to get the full contribution, due to being silly enough to going to university and paying not enough NI.
Thank you for your response.

As you are under the transitional rules you could have skipped uni and worked for the last 45 years and possible still needed more years to reach the standard new State Pension of £185.15/week ,😊

lucrecia15

Albermarle said:

Why have you started a new thread instead of just continuing with the original one.? It has confused me anyway !

Sorry I'm not quite getting the format of posting. Thank you for your comments. My struggle is, to be more accurate, because at the least these posts are driving down my issues. There are 6 pensions, two I would not change. ( Death in service and defined benefit without buying annuity). What do I do with the other 4 maybe 60-75K total? think I can take them now with no benefit loss.
But then there is the tax issue, don't need it right now. 2 are ex Abbey Life. 

xylophone

Yes and I need another 12 - 16 months on my state pension contributions to get the full contribution, due to being silly enough to going to university and paying not enough NI.

You say that you have obtained a state pension forecast.

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

What exactly  does it say?

Is a COPE shown?

Would you be willing to post the names of your pension providers?

lucrecia15

My pension forecast states I will be fully paid up by April next ie. £185.15 . This is the most I can get.
COPE estimate is £78.62. This is one of the three smaller pensions.
This and one other were Abbey Life now Phoenix, the tiny one something to do with Equitable Life ( an AVC I did for about 3 months before they went bust ) Here, I had though I received a full refund but sometime latter got (I think ) some sort of growth funds as well.
My figures for potential income are based on annuity forecasts by HL. Possibly at the time I factored in a joint/partner payment in the event of my death.
Three other pensions are work related, one final salary paid by the company pension scheme and two where I need to buy an annuity, current value @ 25K each.
There are in all five small values pensions. Annuity or SIPP?. Ideally somewhere not requiring five different management fees.

lucrecia15

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

lucrecia15 said:

Current - death in service.
Deferred benefits - not sure. I have deferred 2 x Abbey Life small pensions. I doubt they have anything to offer.
Think the 4 have no benefits.
I'm 63.
Yes and I need another 12 - 16 months on my state pension contributions to get the full contribution, due to being silly enough to going to university and paying not enough NI.
Thank you for your response.

As you are under the transitional rules you could have skipped uni and worked for the last 45 years and possible still needed more years to reach the standard new State Pension of £185.15/week ,😊

I've just checked and will be paid up in April 2023.

xylophone

COPE estimate is £78.62. This is one of the three smaller pensions.

Do you understand what the COPE is?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pension-fact-sheets/contracting-out-and-why-we-may-have-included-a-contracted-out-pension-equivalent-cope-amount-when-you-used-the-online-service#:~:text=Pension Equivalent amount.-,The Contracted Out Pension Equivalent ( COPE ),had not been contracted out.

Were you a member of a Contracted Out Pension Scheme (or schemes) between 1978 and 2016?

If so, a Defined Benefit occupational scheme?

A personal pension (possible from 1988)?

Both?

Of your six pensions are they

Current Defined Benefit

Deferred Defined Benefit

DC

DC

DC

DC

If as above, none of the DC pensions have any "safeguarded benefits"?

When do you reach State Pension Age?

When do you envisage retiring from paid employment?

If there are four DC pensions without safeguarded benefits, you could consider opening a SIPP and transferring all four into it.

You could then access after (currently) age 55.