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Just discovered letter from HMRC saying I owe £2400 for "overdue returns and penalties"

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Comments

  • macman
    macman Posts: 53,128 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    The OP said that it was wound up by strike off in 2019, 'that's the last I heard'.
    So was this established as fact, or merely based on what he was told by the other director?
    Easy enough to check on the CH website.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop ;)
  • derobe
    derobe Posts: 82 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    Hello,

    The company was wound up by strike off that is correct.

    Just to go over my situation again to put things in context:

    I was made a company director in Aug 2017 along with a supposed business partner, I was working alone as a sole trader (so not even a registered company, and gaining attention in a local market, was approached by supposed business partner and his accountant as they saw "potential" in me. The company was formed by his accountant who was doing our accounts (my business partner has about 20-30 separate companies with this accountant so they are invested in each other).

    Supposed business partner and account changed the goal posts almost immediately after company was formed and it was clear that they were trying to get something for doing nothing. Biz partner resigned in September 2017 - I lost many of my clients soon afterwards because of biz partner's actions, also personal income that I was forced to give him as he refused to resign from the company otherwise. Besides the point and no attempt at sob story but to provide context.

    Completely naive at the time (was in early 20's) I was in no way aware that self assesment had to be provided to HMRC. (I got a job in 2018) Apparently one self assesment was filed on my behalf by my accountant. But after that was not done.

    Present day: HMRC write to me at an address they must have tracked me down to July 2022 (still not my current address, fortunately, brother picks the letter up and gives it to me) saying I owe nearly £2400.

    Call them after advice from this thread, speak to a few useless people who hung up on me after waiting an hour to speak to them (I was in no way aggressive or rude I was just looking for answers about how I could avoid the fine but all they said was that it was owed).

    Finally get through to a very helpful person 4th time of asking who listens to what I have to say and says he understands - straight away agrees to withdraw previous two tax years self assesment and says that I may be able to appeal and hopefully the previous tax years can be stated as null accounts payable. Says to call once receive letter. Really helpful guy and a gem compared to everyone else I've dealt with.

    Sure enough receive a letter saying they agree to cancel 20/21 and 21/22 a few days later.

    Now calling back, I cannot seem to get anyone decent on the phone, just really unhelpful drones who explain that the self assesment debts are correct, but won't tell me:

    1. the figure that would now be due with the two years previously gone
    2. what to do about getting the other late penalty fines removed.

    After pressing them on what to do, there seems to be a trend at the hmrc that they just hang up on you. This is after usually waiting 45minutes to 1 hour to speak with them. Not being rude or aggressive just trying to explain the situation and how I can avoid paying what I don't have to!

    Hoping I get another helpful person soon but can anyone tell me how to appeal this in the meantime or what to do to avoid paying any of these fines (baring in mind company mind probably less than £5k).

    Thanks in advance.
  • derobe
    derobe Posts: 82 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    swabaxter said:
    I would suggest obtaining a full statement from HMRC showing the relevant amounts and dates.
    Obtain a copy of your company accounts from Companies House and try to reconcile the two.
    Good Luck.
    How do I do this?
  • derobe
    derobe Posts: 82 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    If the company was compulsorily wound up in 2019, why are HMRC pursuing corporation tax for later years? What was their response when you told them this?

    Presumably you received nothing from the company when it was struck off, because it had no assets?
    They are saying it's for self assesment penalties dating from 2017.
  • derobe
    derobe Posts: 82 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    uknick said:
    1st thing I'd do is look at the filed accounts at companies house to see how much corporation tax should have been paid.  Then, as already suggested, get the tax statement from HMRC to see if the CT numbers correlate.  Finally, check to see if all the PAYE & VAT amounts have been correctly paid.  If all these taxes have been paid correctly, go back to HMRC to see what they've been smoking.
    There are no accounts filed. No tax was ever due I believe the fine I have received is simply for penalties for a late return that I had no idea about.
  • derobe
    derobe Posts: 82 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 24 August 2022 at 3:53PM
    macman said:
    The OP said that it was wound up by strike off in 2019, 'that's the last I heard'.
    So was this established as fact, or merely based on what he was told by the other director?
    Easy enough to check on the CH website.
    That's a fact it's on companies house it was wound up I have removed exact dates and biz partenrs name but kept months and years, see below:








    Company Results (links open in a new window)
    Date(document was filed at Companies House)Description(of the document filed at Companies House)
    -- Feb 2019Final Gazette dissolved via compulsory strike-off
    -- Dec 2018First Gazette notice for compulsory strike-off
    -- Oct 2017Confirmation statement made on 19 September 2017 with updates
    -- Sep 2017Resolutions
    • Change of name by resolution
    • Change company name resolution on 2017-09-19


    -- Sep 2017Cessation of .... .... as a person with significant control on 19 September 2017
    -- Sep 2017Termination of appointment of ..... .... as a director on 19 September 2017
    -- Aug 2017Incorporation
    Statement of capital on 2017-08-14
    • GBP 100
    • Model articles adopted


  • sheramber
    sheramber Posts: 20,896 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts I've been Money Tipped! Name Dropper
    You say you were working self employed before being approached about  the company.

    Did you register with HMRC as self employed for this income- you should have.

    Did you continue with your self employed work? 

    When did you cease self employment?

    What years tax returns are HMRC requesting are completed?  Completing them is the way to get the penalties look into.
  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 35,192 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    derobe said:
    Call them after advice from this thread, speak to a few useless people who hung up on me after waiting an hour to speak to them (I was in no way aggressive or rude I was just looking for answers about how I could avoid the fine but all they said was that it was owed).

    [...]

    After pressing them on what to do, there seems to be a trend at the hmrc that they just hang up on you. This is after usually waiting 45minutes to 1 hour to speak with them. Not being rude or aggressive just trying to explain the situation and how I can avoid paying what I don't have to!

    Hoping I get another helpful person soon but can anyone tell me how to appeal this in the meantime or what to do to avoid paying any of these fines (baring in mind company mind probably less than £5k).
    To be honest I'd stick to my advice from earlier in the thread, i.e. 
    in your shoes I'd be focusing on ensuring that all loose ends are properly tied up and everything resolved, rather than focusing specifically on trying to avoid making a payment
    and
    I wasn't suggesting you phone HMRC, I was meaning following up on this advice, which would probably be better achieved by writing to them rather than phoning:
    swabaxter said:
    I would suggest obtaining a full statement from HMRC showing the relevant amounts and dates.
    Obtain a copy of your company accounts from Companies House and try to reconcile the two.
    Good Luck.
    There's nothing stopping you from making repeated phone calls to them but it doesn't seem to be a particularly productive approach and ultimately you need things in writing.

    The Companies House extract implies that there were no company accounts submitted (and therefore presumably no tax paid) - if you were the sole remaining director after September 2017 then it was your legal responsibility to get these done, so you probably ought to recognise this when discussing things with HMRC.  If company turnover was below £5K this shouldn't have been onerous, but minimal trading activity doesn't actually negate your obligation to fulfil these mandatory activities - the subsequent strike-off doesn't wipe the slate clean as such....
  • derobe
    derobe Posts: 82 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    sheramber said:
    You say you were working self employed before being approached about  the company.

    Did you register with HMRC as self employed for this income- you should have.

    Did you continue with your self employed work? 

    When did you cease self employment?

    What years tax returns are HMRC requesting are completed?  Completing them is the way to get the penalties look into.
    Thanks, how do I complete them? 
  • derobe said:
    sheramber said:
    You say you were working self employed before being approached about  the company.

    Did you register with HMRC as self employed for this income- you should have.

    Did you continue with your self employed work? 

    When did you cease self employment?

    What years tax returns are HMRC requesting are completed?  Completing them is the way to get the penalties look into.
    Thanks, how do I complete them? 
    If it is too late to file them online you can print the basic return and any supplementary pages needed (self employment, employment etc) off gov.uk.
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