Question about how to value assets with multiple components

ThunderHoof

Say that you have multi component items like a self built desktop computer where you have purchased the components like cpu, motherboard, graphics card etc. separately all under the value of £500 each, and under normal circumstances you would sell those second hand as individual components again as you periodically upgrade parts. But the system as a whole is worth more than £500, do you declare this as an asset over £500? It's a little unclear, same goes for camera gear, body is just under £500, lens just under £500, is this treated as one system worth ~£1k or do you declare assets as they would normally be treated on the second hand market, which is sold separately and not as a single system?

JCS1

How much are they worth second hand?  ignore the prices you paid.

ThunderHoof

Yeah I know that it's based on the 2nd hand value, but if the 2nd hand value of all the components in the system as a whole is over £500 but the 2nd hand value of each individual component that you bought is under £500 does this system count as an asset over £500 or not? Bearing in mind you would generally sell components individually when you upgrade them rather than selling the whole system. A computer is basically like lego in terms of how easy it is to swap out components so we're not talking about soldering off components etc

As for the camera, since basically camera bodies and lenses are treated as separate things and generally always sold separately (except for some beginner kits) I imagine they would not be counted as a system and each component would be valued individually for the purposes of declaring assets. I'll email StepChange and see if they can give any input.

Sonic101

Hi there 

I think you are over-thinking this. 

The majority of people would just buy/sell a computer ‘off the peg’, and I doubt very much whether the insolvency service has the time, interest or resources to  strip down a computer and sell off its component parts. 

If you had boxes of valuable parts sitting in your garage that the insolvency service could easily value and flog off to a third party that might be different, but this is not the case. I would just give the resale value of the computer itself and leave it at that.  

JCS1

How much are they worth at auction after fees? And then OR would have agents fees to pay also

sourcrates

The OR is not looking to take your household goods, TV`s/Computers etc, all have a very low second hand value, despite what you might have originally paid for them, sometimes auction prices on these goods barely reach the value of what it costs to list them.

They will only be interested in high value items, such as jewellery/paintings/designer clothes/non essential vehicles etc etc.

For the purpose of listing assets, any values you attach to items, should be what you would expect to obtain for them if you listed them for sale on Facebook marketplace, or at a car boot sale, as that would be the most realistic in terms of price.

carrot42

sourcrates said:

The OR is not looking to take your household goods, TV`s/Computers etc, all have a very low second hand value, despite what you might have originally paid for them, sometimes auction prices on these goods barely reach the value of what it costs to list them.

They will only be interested in high value items, such as jewellery/paintings/designer clothes/non essential vehicles etc etc.

For the purpose of listing assets, any values you attach to items, should be what you would expect to obtain for them if you listed them for sale on Facebook marketplace, or at a car boot sale, as that would be the most realistic in terms of price.

Does it also meant that there has to be some value X before item could be considered high value? Like will OR will consider anything above 500 for a start or it is better to put as less as possible and hope OR not going to spot this/ask questions later why certain items weren't reported as assets?

sourcrates

For the vast majority of people, bankruptcy is a non-invasive procedure, and most people who go bankrupt do not lose ANY domestic possessions at all.. 

No one comes to your house to make a list of the things in it.

The Official Receiver’s general approach is that you will be able to keep normal domestic objects providing they aren’t worth more than reasonable replacements. This applies to clothes, furniture, carpets, bedding, TV`s electrical goods etc. 

I would not even bother listing a computer, no one will be interested in what the individual components are potentially worth, its just a regular computer to anyone else, try not to overthink things.

The OR is only interested in tangible, valuable assets that will sell easily at auction, such as paintings/jewellery/designer gear etc, if you don`t have any of these things, then leave the page blank.

ThunderHoof

Ok, looks like I am overthinking things, I don't have any valuables like jewellery etc so my assets will be only what is in my current account.

carrot42

sourcrates said:

For the vast majority of people, bankruptcy is a non-invasive procedure, and most people who go bankrupt do not lose ANY domestic possessions at all.. 

No one comes to your house to make a list of the things in it.

The Official Receiver’s general approach is that you will be able to keep normal domestic objects providing they aren’t worth more than reasonable replacements. This applies to clothes, furniture, carpets, bedding, TV`s electrical goods etc. 

I would not even bother listing a computer, no one will be interested in what the individual components are potentially worth, its just a regular computer to anyone else, try not to overthink things.

The OR is only interested in tangible, valuable assets that will sell easily at auction, such as paintings/jewellery/designer gear etc, if you don`t have any of these things, then leave the page blank.

Thanks Sourcrates. Your answer leads me to one more question: if OR does not care about assets that much, maybe it is worth leaving pretty much blank page then even if there are valuables (within up to 10k range)? Because if OR will come back later, one could say that he simply forgot about them or it is a crime which will 100% lead to prosecution submitting "a little bit false" information about one's assets?

Sonic101

carrot42 said:

sourcrates said:

For the vast majority of people, bankruptcy is a non-invasive procedure, and most people who go bankrupt do not lose ANY domestic possessions at all.. 

No one comes to your house to make a list of the things in it.

The Official Receiver’s general approach is that you will be able to keep normal domestic objects providing they aren’t worth more than reasonable replacements. This applies to clothes, furniture, carpets, bedding, TV`s electrical goods etc. 

I would not even bother listing a computer, no one will be interested in what the individual components are potentially worth, its just a regular computer to anyone else, try not to overthink things.

The OR is only interested in tangible, valuable assets that will sell easily at auction, such as paintings/jewellery/designer gear etc, if you don`t have any of these things, then leave the page blank.

Thanks Sourcrates. Your answer leads me to one more question: if OR does not care about assets that much, maybe it is worth leaving pretty much blank page then even if there are valuables (within up to 10k range)? Because if OR will come back later, one could say that he simply forgot about them or it is a crime which will 100% lead to prosecution submitting "a little bit false" information about one's assets?

Dishonesty is to be discouraged.
Intentionally lying to the insolvency service  or hiding stuff is a criminal offence.  

Although the IS is not going to come round to someone’s house willy-nilly to check for valuables, they do have the authority/ability to look as far back as they want into a person’s financial affairs as far back as they want - so if there were transactions involving large purchases or transfer money these could alert suspicion; any the IS might also look at instance documents and suchlike.

As for  penalty for not declaring assets would depend on the level of deception - minor infringements might get a person a slap on the wrist and a short bankruptcy restriction order, serious deception possibly imprisonment. 

Also the person  would end up with a fraud marker on their credit file, which could prove to be a massive problem. Bankruptcy falls off file after six years and is ‘forgivable’, but fraud is a no-no.