Defined Benefit scheme - take early?

PS200

I am 60 - I can start to take my DB scheme pension now if I like.  I am still working so the income would be taxed at 40% as I am higher rate tax payer.  I also have a DC pension - is there any reason why I can't just put the (small) income from my DB pension straight into my DC scheme? I mean in theory it wouldn't even necessarily be the "same" money - one could argue I am using the pension to live on and paying the extra contributions from my workplace earnings, right?

squirrelpie

Does your DB pension pay without reduction, or alternatively does it not increase if you don't take it now?

xylophone

The title thread says "take early" -  do you mean take at Normal Scheme Pension Age ( that is, early  only on the basis that you are continuing in employment rather than retiring)?

If NRA, does the scheme pay "late retirement increases" if you defer beyond NRA?

Does this pension relate to active membership in your current employer's DB Scheme or is it a deferred DB pension, either from a scheme with your current employer that is closed to future accrual or alternatively from a previous employment?

You refer to a DC pension - is this a personal pension or a current workplace pension?

In general terms, there would be no objection in taking your DB pension as income replacement and increasing your contributions to your DC Scheme from your relevant earnings as you envisage.
See https://techzone.abrdn.com/public/pensions/tech-guide-recycle-tax-free-cash#:~:text=Individuals can recycle excess pension,purchase annual allowance (MPPA).

https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-your-private-pension/pension-tax-relief

PS200

Thanks - I would be taking a lesser pension if I take the DB pension now - at the time it was a company scheme that envisaged everyone retiring at the (then) state pension age - which would have been 65 for me (so full benefit would be gained by leaving it until I am 65) - this is a deferred pension from a previous employer.
My DC pension is a personal one.

PS200

I read the links about recycling - but my plan isn't to reinvest the tax-free sum from DB pension - it's to use the regular income (which isn't tax free).

xylophone

it's to use the regular income (which isn't tax free).

Did you read down as far as "income recycling"?

Individuals can recycle excess pension income into their pension scheme, within the normal tax relief and annual allowance rules. But there’s an additional restriction for those who have taken benefits flexibly from a defined contribution scheme as this triggers the money purchase annual allowance (MPPA).

(so full benefit would be gained by leaving it until I am 65) -

Then have you done your sums/analysis as to the benefit of taking it now (presumably with actuarial reduction) or leaving to NRA?

My DC pension is a personal one.

Are you on annual self assessment? If not, you may need to look into contacting HMRC re 40% tax relief if appropriate.

Have you obtained a state pension forecast?

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

PS200

Thanks again 
I missed the income bit but thanks for highlighting it (doh!)
I will do the calculations again but it's getting much closer to the point where even allowing for the actuarial adjustment it will be worth it.

I do self assessment most years, but I make a fixed contribution to my DC plan and have done for a long time - so it's reflected in my current tax code.

I have obtained a state pension forecast which indicates I am due the full pension due to having 39 years Ni contributions already.

xylophone

I am due the full pension due to having 39 years Ni contributions already.

You come under transitional rules so that this would not necessarily mean that you had reached a full NSP.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79202514/#Comment_79202514

A poster who was "contracted out" states

I've got 48 full years and am still not getting the full rate. 

PS200

Thanks - that's very useful, I do indeed have a COPE value.  The main page states 

Your forecast is £185.15 a week,
£805.07 a month, £9,660.86 a year

£185.15 is the most you can get

You cannot improve your forecast any more.

But the cope figure is 

Your COPE estimate is £58.48 a week

xylophone

Your COPE estimate is £58.48 a week

This would have been used once only in establishing your "starting amount" for NSP on 6/4/16.

Your starting amount was the higher of

 (a) NI years/30 (max) x £119.30 (Full Basic) + (Additional State Pension - Deduction for Contracting Out)

  (b) (NI years/35 x £155.65 (Full NSP)) - COPE.

It is likely that (a) gave the higher amount.

Those who came under the new scheme and had not reached the full NSP at 6/4/16 had the possibility of improving  the SP up to (but not exceeding) a full NSP through further contributions/credits.

See https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/181237/single-tier-pension-fact-sheet.pdf

Secret2ndAccount

I'm missing something here. Why do you want to take the DB pension now?
If you take it early, you get an actuarial reduction. That typically doesn't leave you richer or poorer - it's just moving money around between the years.
If you pay the pension (or equivalent amount) into your DC, you don't pay any tax on it. So your options are:
a) move the money from DB to DC tax free, then (I'm presuming here) pay 20% tax when you eventually withdraw it;
b) leave the money in the DB, then (I'm presuming here) pay 20% tax when you eventually withdraw it
End result is the same, so why are you keen to take the DB?
If you have an employer who offers salary sacrifice, you would get more govt freebies on your DC pension contribs than you would pay in tax on the DB. That would be one reason.
If you have limited life expectancy you might want to get as much out of the DB as possible before you depart.
If you live longer than average, you start to make money on the DB - inflation linked guaranteed payments instead of a dwindling DC pot. That's a reason to leave the DB until 65 for maximum monthly sum.
The DC probably pays a spouse's pension - maybe 50% - after you are gone. That could be important to you or worthless. Check if that payout is based on the actuarially reduced sum, or the sum at 65.
If you want to leave the money to someone other than your spouse, but are concerned about being in inheritance tax territory, then moving the money to a DC scheme could be a good workaround.