Solar panel Newbie, don’t have a clue on prices

lucylou32

QrizB said:

You're in the right place to get this analysed for you. = Thank you 

lucylou32 said:

our postcode is TN9 2HH. We have room for 12 panels, I’m home all day, we’re looking at having 2x batteries 3.2 storage. Roof is 44 pitch, 17 degrees from south. 4.68kWp size, shade factor 1, estimated SAP production 5,208.84. Price includes bird protection enviroguard and scaffolding. £10k. Total.

Is this 2x 3.2kWh batteries, for a total of 6.4kWh, or 2x 1.6kWh batteries, for a total of 3.2kWh?

Your 4.68kWp solar PV system would cost around £6k by itself, so the battery is adding around £4k. That's a little bit over the odds for a 3.2kWh battery, but a good price for a 6.4kWh one.

Estimated SAP production 5,208.84. ...The quote says we should break even in 8-10yrs. But the calculated ML recommend we use, says we’ll only save £400 on energy bills each year, so that’s over 20 yrs to break even!

Solar PV suppliers own calculation of payback times are often hugely optimistic and should be ignored.

What's missing from the info is your expected annual electricity use. If it's a typical number of around 3000kWh/yr, and spread roughly evenly across the year at 250kWh/month, with that array and battery conbination you should be able to replace somewhere arouind 2000kWh/yr with solar electricity. That will mean exporting 3000kWh/yr.

At current prices:

• 2000kWh/yr reduction in electricity bill @ 28p/kWh = £560/yr
• 3000kWh/yr exported @ 7.5p/kWh = £225/yr
• Total return = £785/yr, payback time = 12.7 years

However, electricity prices are currently abnormally high and can't be expected to stay this high for all that long. They could easily fall back to roughly half the current level within 2-3 years, at which point you would only be ~£400/yr better off and payback would take 25 years.

= it appears to be 2x 3.2 batteries at £912 each. Panels are £416 each (x12 = £4992) 

= estimated electricity use 350kWh/month, based on Feb-June this year, when I was transferred to Shell energy. 

For the 2 batteries and 12 panels, the cost appears to be £6,816, which I’d be happy with.

 But all the extras, like 12x£30 to replace 12 damaged tiles (they’re assuming that’s how many they’ll have to replace) bird protection £420, scaffolding £600, plus other stuff on the original quote that I don’t have a copy of… combined total an extra £3,299… which seems excessive for ‘add-ons’ and make me doubt, I want to get value for my money at the end of the day, and if it’s likely to take longer then 10 years to break even, I want them to be honest with how long, so I can judge if we should proceed. 

Thank you for your time with this, it’s much appreciated 

Screwdriva

Anyone who believes that the vast majority of PV customers aren’t in it for the financial benefit, followed by other factors like environmentalism, a clear conscience etc. must know something I don’t.

Every single install I’m aware of always ask about the upfront financial justification followed by the cost of continual ownership. Then comes the tree hugging. We’re in the minority here, without a doubt. 

lucylou32

Screwdriva said:

Anyone who believes that the vast majority of PV customers aren’t in it for the financial benefit, followed both other factors like environmentalism, a clear conscience etc.
must know something I don’t.

Every single install I know of always ask about the upfront financial justification followed by the cost of continual ownership.

100% ! I will always pick the ‘be good’ option, as long as it isn’t detrimental to me, I think that most people are the same, deep down  

shibli

Reed_Richards said:

At this time of year I frequently find myself exporting a lot of energy that I simply cannot use at the time.  If it's sunny I can recharge my battery (6.5 kWh) and my hot water cylinder by early afternoon.  After that even running the dehumidifier and the electric heated towel rail barely dents the amount being exported.  I would feel dreadful if I then ended up having to draw electricity from the grid for evening and overnight use.  So for me the battery is about peace of mind, not about whether the total money it saves me will ever reach the purchase cost.    

Hi Reed, I too have a set up that includes batteries and an iboost, I am curious in how you fill your hot water cylinder as I struggle to fill it with hot water on a daily basis, and usually every other day use my boiler for 30mins  top up. How much Kwh are using for the cylinder?  Is your water hot to touch or warm? Thats the only part I am some what disappointed with. 

EcoScruples

lucylou32 said:

QrizB said:

You're in the right place to get this analysed for you. = Thank you 

lucylou32 said:

our postcode is TN9 2HH. We have room for 12 panels, I’m home all day, we’re looking at having 2x batteries 3.2 storage. Roof is 44 pitch, 17 degrees from south. 4.68kWp size, shade factor 1, estimated SAP production 5,208.84. Price includes bird protection enviroguard and scaffolding. £10k. Total.

Is this 2x 3.2kWh batteries, for a total of 6.4kWh, or 2x 1.6kWh batteries, for a total of 3.2kWh?

Your 4.68kWp solar PV system would cost around £6k by itself, so the battery is adding around £4k. That's a little bit over the odds for a 3.2kWh battery, but a good price for a 6.4kWh one.

Estimated SAP production 5,208.84. ...The quote says we should break even in 8-10yrs. But the calculated ML recommend we use, says we’ll only save £400 on energy bills each year, so that’s over 20 yrs to break even!

Solar PV suppliers own calculation of payback times are often hugely optimistic and should be ignored.

What's missing from the info is your expected annual electricity use. If it's a typical number of around 3000kWh/yr, and spread roughly evenly across the year at 250kWh/month, with that array and battery conbination you should be able to replace somewhere arouind 2000kWh/yr with solar electricity. That will mean exporting 3000kWh/yr.

At current prices:

• 2000kWh/yr reduction in electricity bill @ 28p/kWh = £560/yr
• 3000kWh/yr exported @ 7.5p/kWh = £225/yr
• Total return = £785/yr, payback time = 12.7 years

However, electricity prices are currently abnormally high and can't be expected to stay this high for all that long. They could easily fall back to roughly half the current level within 2-3 years, at which point you would only be ~£400/yr better off and payback would take 25 years.

= it appears to be 2x 3.2 batteries at £912 each. Panels are £416 each (x12 = £4992) 

= estimated electricity use 350kWh/month, based on Feb-June this year, when I was transferred to Shell energy. 

For the 2 batteries and 12 panels, the cost appears to be £6,816, which I’d be happy with.

 But all the extras, like 12x£30 to replace 12 damaged tiles (they’re assuming that’s how many they’ll have to replace) bird protection £420, scaffolding £600, plus other stuff on the original quote that I don’t have a copy of… combined total an extra £3,299… which seems excessive for ‘add-ons’ and make me doubt, I want to get value for my money at the end of the day, and if it’s likely to take longer then 10 years to break even, I want them to be honest with how long, so I can judge if we should proceed. 

Thank you for your time with this, it’s much appreciated 

Roof tiles that they break or that are already broken?
I wouldn't be paying for that, my installers broke 3 tiles that they replaced FOC.  

lucylou32

EcoScruples said:

Roof tiles that they break or that are already broken?
I wouldn't be paying for that, my installers broke 3 tiles that they replaced FOC.  

They said, they are small tiles, and therefore, they are anticipating breaking 12 of them when carrying out the installation. 

EcoScruples

lucylou32 said:

EcoScruples said:

Roof tiles that they break or that are already broken?
I wouldn't be paying for that, my installers broke 3 tiles that they replaced FOC.  

They said, they are small tiles, and therefore, they are anticipating breaking 12 of them when carrying out the installation. 

I'm sorry but no, you need to charge them for breaking the roof tiles, I'd have none of that.

94JDH

lucylou32 said:

EcoScruples said:

Roof tiles that they break or that are already broken?
I wouldn't be paying for that, my installers broke 3 tiles that they replaced FOC.  

They said, they are small tiles, and therefore, they are anticipating breaking 12 of them when carrying out the installation. 

Are they Rosemary tiles? If they are they are notorious for breaking, especially if relatively old.

lucylou32

94JDH said:

Are they Rosemary tiles? If they are they are notorious for breaking, especially if relatively old.

I’ve just googled to see what they look like, and yes, I think so, plain and clay… but, Google also said, they cost less then £1 each… so is £360 really a good price to replace 12? Surely it wouldn’t take a whole day to replace 12 and even so, £360 as a day rate seems high. 

94JDH

lucylou32 said:

94JDH said:

Are they Rosemary tiles? If they are they are notorious for breaking, especially if relatively old.

I’ve just googled to see what they look like, and yes, I think so, plain and clay… but, Google also said, they cost less then £1 each… so is £360 really a good price to replace 12? Surely it wouldn’t take a whole day to replace 12 and even so, £360 as a day rate seems high. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they break alot more - how old is the roof? Mine was installed in 1935, having worked on them for the family business when at school/college holidays I decided not to disturb them and use the two flat roof areas at the bottom of the garden on an East/West split.
Many people have them installed on these types of tiles but I didn't want to push my luck and my other option gives better coverage.