New employment contract - Standard working hours clause?

Hello,
I would be grateful for any views on a new employment contract that I have been given to sign. 
This contract has to be signed in order for me to carry on with hybrid working (which I want to carry on with)
Basically, I currently have a very old contract which is very basic and was before my employer became a corporation - shows a flat 37 working hours per week, overtime is paid etc. (paid overtime went by-the-by over time and now toil is just offered, however, I don't argue this with them and take the toil as it suits me).
Please note, that I do already work extra hours without argument, as my job is such that it requires it. 
However, as not being part of my contract I presume that I could therefore have legally refused.  
On the third clause, I'm thinking of the near future world, and wondering how this could take effect, ie. If there are electricity shortages in the area.
I would be grateful for views on these clauses, as I'm not happy to sign, but I do want the hybrid working arrangement to continue.
Are these clauses standard within new employment contracts now?
Thanks in advance:)

 
'Your normal hours of work are 37 per week ......am to .....pm Monday to Thursday and ....am to ..... Fridays with a daily unpaid lunch break of .... minutes.  You will be required to work such additional hours as may be necessary for the proper function of your duties without additional payment.  You may be required to work evenings and weekends.  If you are required to work additional hours on a Saturday or Sunday, you will be given time off in lieu from your normal working hours.'

'The corporation is entitled to change the days or hours during which you are required to work on a permanent or temporary basis on reasonable notice.'

'The corporation may decide to close for a number of working days in the efficiency.  In that case, you will be allowed to add up to a maximum of 3 working days to your working days holiday entitlement.  Any efficiency closure of more than 3 days in total must be taken out of your basic working days holiday entitlement.'

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  • UndervaluedUndervalued Forumite
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    Hello,
    I would be grateful for any views on a new employment contract that I have been given to sign. 
    This contract has to be signed in order for me to carry on with hybrid working (which I want to carry on with)
    Basically, I currently have a very old contract which is very basic and was before my employer became a corporation - shows a flat 37 working hours per week, overtime is paid etc. (paid overtime went by-the-by over time and now toil is just offered, however, I don't argue this with them and take the toil as it suits me).
    Please note, that I do already work extra hours without argument, as my job is such that it requires it. 
    However, as not being part of my contract I presume that I could therefore have legally refused.  
    On the third clause, I'm thinking of the near future world, and wondering how this could take effect, ie. If there are electricity shortages in the area.
    I would be grateful for views on these clauses, as I'm not happy to sign, but I do want the hybrid working arrangement to continue.
    Are these clauses standard within new employment contracts now?
    Thanks in advance:)

     
    'Your normal hours of work are 37 per week ......am to .....pm Monday to Thursday and ....am to ..... Fridays with a daily unpaid lunch break of .... minutes.  You will be required to work such additional hours as may be necessary for the proper function of your duties without additional payment.  You may be required to work evenings and weekends.  If you are required to work additional hours on a Saturday or Sunday, you will be given time off in lieu from your normal working hours.'

    'The corporation is entitled to change the days or hours during which you are required to work on a permanent or temporary basis on reasonable notice.'

    'The corporation may decide to close for a number of working days in the efficiency.  In that case, you will be allowed to add up to a maximum of 3 working days to your working days holiday entitlement.  Any efficiency closure of more than 3 days in total must be taken out of your basic working days holiday entitlement.'
    Probably not, it depends what you mean by "contract".

    A so called contract of employment is not simply a sheet of paper with the word contract on it. Technically it is, at best, a statement of the main particulars of employment. An employer is legally obliged to give you this although in practice there is little useful redress if they don't.

    Your "contract" includes things like any staff handbook, terms and conditions, job advert and acceptance, custom and practice, notices on the tea room wall etc. etc. Verbal agreements are just as binding (although obviously harder to prove what was agreed). Things evolve over time and become part of your "contract".
  • Jaybee_16Jaybee_16 Forumite
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    'Your normal hours of work are 37 per week ......am to .....pm Monday to Thursday and ....am to ..... Fridays with a daily unpaid lunch break of .... minutes.  You will be required to work such additional hours as may be necessary for the proper function of your duties without additional payment.  You may be required to work evenings and weekends.  If you are required to work additional hours on a Saturday or Sunday, you will be given time off in lieu from your normal working hours.'

    'The corporation is entitled to change the days or hours during which you are required to work on a permanent or temporary basis on reasonable notice.'

    'The corporation may decide to close for a number of working days in the efficiency.  In that case, you will be allowed to add up to a maximum of 3 working days to your working days holiday entitlement.  Any efficiency closure of more than 3 days in total must be taken out of your basic working days holiday entitlement.'
    My initial thoughts on reading these contract details:

    My reading of the first paragraph is that if you work additional hours Monday - Friday they are done for no additional pay nor TOIL, as the TOIL only refers to weekend working.

    What is reasonable notice? There may be occasions where a month is reasonable for a change, whereas in another scenario, the company may only give a day or two notice of a fundamental change and they may consider that reasonable. It's a bit vague.

    Paragraph three I cannot comment as I don't know what 'the efficiency' means.

    This depends how much influence you may have to amend any contract details or whether you are given the document as a fait accompli.
  • TELLIT01TELLIT01 Forumite
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    What level within the company is this job?  The stuff about additional unpaid hours is pretty common once you get to supervisory or managerial roles but less so further down the totem pole.
  • General_GrantGeneral_Grant Forumite
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    'The corporation may decide to close for a number of working days in the efficiency.  In that case, you will be allowed to add up to a maximum of 3 working days to your working days holiday entitlement.  Any efficiency closure of more than 3 days in total must be taken out of your basic working days holiday entitlement.'
    Perhaps you have a better understanding of what they mean here.

    To me, the first two sentences mean they could declide to close/not require your attendance and those days (up to three) could simply be additional holiday.  So seems no detriment to you.

    However, the final, third, sentence would in effect mean they were deducting the closure days (including the first three?, it's not clear) from your holiday entitlement.  As employers can tell employees exactly when they can take paid leave, this is allowed by law as long as they give you appropriate notice.  I think they may be planning to do this on a rolling notice basis, which is legal but not in the spirit of the Act.  I therefore suspect that the first three days would be added to your entitlement in order than they could move to the rolling notice for the remaining days.

  • DidleySquatDidleySquat Forumite
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    Jaybee_16 said:

     
    'Your normal hours of work are 37 per week ......am to .....pm Monday to Thursday and ....am to ..... Fridays with a daily unpaid lunch break of .... minutes.  You will be required to work such additional hours as may be necessary for the proper function of your duties without additional payment.  You may be required to work evenings and weekends.  If you are required to work additional hours on a Saturday or Sunday, you will be given time off in lieu from your normal working hours.'

    'The corporation is entitled to change the days or hours during which you are required to work on a permanent or temporary basis on reasonable notice.'

    'The corporation may decide to close for a number of working days in the efficiency.  In that case, you will be allowed to add up to a maximum of 3 working days to your working days holiday entitlement.  Any efficiency closure of more than 3 days in total must be taken out of your basic working days holiday entitlement.'
    My initial thoughts on reading these contract details:

    My reading of the first paragraph is that if you work additional hours Monday - Friday they are done for no additional pay nor TOIL, as the TOIL only refers to weekend working.

    What is reasonable notice? There may be occasions where a month is reasonable for a change, whereas in another scenario, the company may only give a day or two notice of a fundamental change and they may consider that reasonable. It's a bit vague.

    Paragraph three I cannot comment as I don't know what 'the efficiency' means.

    This depends how much influence you may have to amend any contract details or whether you are given the document as a fait accompli.
    Hi, 
    I agree, it is all too vague!
    Is this normal now on a contract, where it all seems in favour of the employer?
    I would get toil if expected to work over my normal  hours during the weekday and the notice is fairly reasonable most of the time, mostly expected to work extra hours, depending upon the time of the year.
    There is another clause in the contract, that states that you should not work more than 48 hours over a 17 week period.  So, you can be made to work those hours for 17 weeks!
    I'm just a grunt on the ground I'm afraid, so I have absolutely no influence on the contract details. 
    Thanks for the input.

  • Ath_WatAth_Wat Forumite
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    Does it really say "the corporation may decide to close for a number of working days in the efficiency", as that is gibberish?  or have you left out "something like "in the interest of efficiency"?

    The first couple of clauses don't seem at all unusual to me.  The "may be required to work extra hours" has been on every contract I have ever had, and I've never been asked to do it as a regular thing.  It's common on salaried roles and the question is how much you are being paid - if you are paid anything near minimum wage it's an issue, if you're on 80K a year it isn't, then it's just where you draw the line that it becomes a problem.

    The third one appears to me to say that you have to take efficiency closure out of holidays but  you can add up to 3 days holiday per closure  to your allowance to cover it.  That means that as long as the efficiency closure is for 3 days or less, you will basically be paid to stay at home, so closures of 3 days or less work in your favour.

    Longer closures will eat into your holiday allowance, which is not great, but I suppose it's just about how likely this is to happen.
  • TBagpussTBagpuss Forumite
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    They are not uncommon, particuarlyly in what you might think of as professional or white collar roles (much less common in jobs such as retail or production line)

    The efficiency closure is also not uncommon -they could simply say thatyou may be required to use your holiday but in fact they are saying that you would get 3 extra days paid and have to use holiday for longer periods, which is mpre generous than some. 

    You can of course query the weekend working and the provision about chaning your hours, if those havent been things that you've had to do in the past.

    Please be aware that if you continue to work then you will be deemed to have accepted the new terms whether or not you sign the contract, unless you explicitly notify tham that you have not and are 'working under protest' while it is negotiated / any concerns are addressed. 
    All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)
  • diystarter7diystarter7 Forumite
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    Contracts are not worth the parer they are written on over the last 15 years or so.

    Unless an employer is totally incompetent, they'd covered their backs for you to move to a new site, change in hours, additional hours, etc, etc inc different duties that are at your grade or lower meaning you could be a toilet cleaner if they could not get hold of their regular person/s.

    We had our contracts changed a couple of times it was a take it or go stance and we all signed, well auto signed as if we had not signed the contracts by x date and we turned up for work on x date we would auto enroll to new contract, lol
  • DidleySquatDidleySquat Forumite
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    Ath_Wat said:
    Does it really say "the corporation may decide to close for a number of working days in the efficiency", as that is gibberish?  or have you left out "something like "in the interest of efficiency"?

    The first couple of clauses don't seem at all unusual to me.  The "may be required to work extra hours" has been on every contract I have ever had, and I've never been asked to do it as a regular thing.  It's common on salaried roles and the question is how much you are being paid - if you are paid anything near minimum wage it's an issue, if you're on 80K a year it isn't, then it's just where you draw the line that it becomes a problem.

    The third one appears to me to say that you have to take efficiency closure out of holidays but  you can add up to 3 days holiday per closure  to your allowance to cover it.  That means that as long as the efficiency closure is for 3 days or less, you will basically be paid to stay at home, so closures of 3 days or less work in your favour.

    Longer closures will eat into your holiday allowance, which is not great, but I suppose it's just about how likely this is to happen.
    Thank you for your input.  (I'm salaried and on a little over 20K a year and you're correct, it  should say 'in the interest of efficiency').  
  • edited 28 June 2022 at 8:23AM
    DaktaDakta Forumite
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    edited 28 June 2022 at 8:23AM
    Thing to watch for I think is that the extra time it seems they may have you doing during the week now doesn't take you under nmw for the total hours worked. It's not unusual in salaried roles to be expected to do longer as need arises but that's what I'd watch for in this situation as if you did fall under no contract clause can make it right. 

    My math isn't the best but assuming 20k salary and 37 hours, if they did actually start giving you expectations for 48 hour weeks you would quite soon depending on age dip below nmw. (I've assumed your over 23) so I think this is what you want to look out for


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