Willis Towers Watson-Lloyds Pension Scheme Administrators

philng

Having a nightmare with the above having originally requested retirement figures March & being sent not what I asked for with further delay before receiving correct figures. In meantime my AVC fell significantly due to market falls.

Further questions raised on both mine & my wife pension 11th May still outstanding & unable to provide a timeframe for answers today.

Complaint raised May with no formal resolution or proper acknowledgement received over the initial quote issue.

Anyone else had issues with these lot? Online reviews are dreadful. Unsure why a Co as large as Lloyds doesn't take note?

What else can I do to get the answers I have requested?

xylophone

In meantime my AVC fell significantly due to market falls.

I don't think that you'd get far with a complaint in this respect - in effect, AVC policy is just a DC pension and subject to market forces?   Many a slip twixt cup and lip?

With regard to the delays, you may be on stronger ground but at the best of times, people are normally advised to  start the process of claiming their pensions well in advance of when they wish to start drawing it, often three to four months in advance?

philng

xylophone said:

In meantime my AVC fell significantly due to market falls.

I don't think that you'd get far with a complaint in this respect - in effect, AVC policy is just a DC pension and subject to market forces?   Many a slip twixt cup and lip?

With regard to the delays, you may be on stronger ground but at the best of times, people are normally advised to  start the process of claiming their pensions well in advance of when they wish to start drawing it, often three to four months in advance?

I guess so. But what do you do if you simply can’t get answers to relatively straight forward questions that are material to your decisions?

xylophone

I guess so. But what do you do if you simply can’t get answers to relatively straight forward questions that are material to your decisions?

I can appreciate your frustration ( and I have seen other posts where administrative problems at WTW have been mentioned) but I suppose that in respect of your DB benefits, the actual figures seem to have been provided and accepted as correct so that delay in answering supplementary questions won't financially disadvantage you?

philng

xylophone said:

I guess so. But what do you do if you simply can’t get answers to relatively straight forward questions that are material to your decisions?

I can appreciate your frustration ( and I have seen other posts where administrative problems at WTW have been mentioned) but I suppose that in respect of your DB benefits, the actual figures seem to have been provided and accepted as correct so that delay in answering supplementary questions won't financially disadvantage you?

Well indirectly they do. In my case i need to understand how much my deferred pension will increase by up to if i decide to defer. And my wife received a quote on hers that no longer had an underpin included which appears incorrect.

Both these questions remain unanswered since 11 may so stopping us making an informed decision.

xylophone

 In my case i need to understand how much my deferred pension will increase by up to if i decide to defer. 

This is the pension?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79196563#Comment_79196563

Do you mean if you don't take it now but wait until scheme NRA?

Did you ever come across your statement of deferred benefits on leaving?

It would have shown pre 88 GMP/post 88 GMP/excess.

6 April 1988 of £376.48 a year and a GMP built up after 5 April 1988 of £1,549.08 a year.

Are these the figures revalued at fixed rate to age 65 or the figures at DOL?

Does your scheme used Fixed Rate?

You cited a pension at age 60 but presumably this was an estimate as actual inflation rate was unknown?

Did you ever obtain a copy of the Scheme Guide?

And my wife received a quote on hers that no longer had an underpin included which appears incorrect.

Your wife is a deferred member of a different scheme/a different section of the same scheme?

Marcon

philng said:

xylophone said:

I guess so. But what do you do if you simply can’t get answers to relatively straight forward questions that are material to your decisions?

I can appreciate your frustration ( and I have seen other posts where administrative problems at WTW have been mentioned) but I suppose that in respect of your DB benefits, the actual figures seem to have been provided and accepted as correct so that delay in answering supplementary questions won't financially disadvantage you?

Well indirectly they do. In my case i need to understand how much my deferred pension will increase by up to if i decide to defer. And my wife received a quote on hers that no longer had an underpin included which appears incorrect.

Both these questions remain unanswered since 11 may so stopping us making an informed decision.

Do you have access to a scheme booklet, either in hard copy or online? That might help.

Although I can understand your frustration, you need to understand the pressure pension administrators are under, the complexity of the issues they are dealing with and the string of queries they are bombarded with on a daily basis. Online reviews are often poor for two reasons: people are more prone to leaving reviews if they want to complain; and they frequently have unrealistic expectations about how quickly they will get a response (and yes, I do sympathise!). 

In answer to 'what do you do?' where a delay becomes excessive is: ask for a copy of the Internal Dispute Resolution Procedure. If your scheme has a website you should be able to download, otherwise ask the administrators for a copy - or contact someone on the trustee board. A member using IDRP usually grabs attention!

philng

xylophone said:

 In my case i need to understand how much my deferred pension will increase by up to if i decide to defer. 

This is the pension?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79196563#Comment_79196563

Do you mean if you don't take it now but wait until scheme NRA?

Did you ever come across your statement of deferred benefits on leaving?

It would have shown pre 88 GMP/post 88 GMP/excess.

6 April 1988 of £376.48 a year and a GMP built up after 5 April 1988 of £1,549.08 a year.

Are these the figures revalued at fixed rate to age 65 or the figures at DOL?

Does your scheme used Fixed Rate?

You cited a pension at age 60 but presumably this was an estimate as actual inflation rate was unknown?

Did you ever obtain a copy of the Scheme Guide?

And my wife received a quote on hers that no longer had an underpin included which appears incorrect.

Your wife is a deferred member of a different scheme/a different section of the same scheme?

Sorry not sure i understand all that but i have traced the answer to the amount of increase on deferred pension which is broadly in line with inflation up to max 5%.

The 2nd question related to part of my wife pension which was DC but included an underpin in every statement up until last year. Then when i have asked for a quote recently there is no underpin and the quote is almost £400 a year less than every annual statement figure we have had for last 3 years.

xylophone

The 2nd question related to part of my wife pension which was DC but included an underpin in every statement up until last year.

What was the nature of the underpin?

With regard to your own pension and the GMP

6 April 1988 of £376.48 a year and a GMP built up after 5 April 1988 of £1,549.08 a year.

Are these the figures shown on your statement of deferred benefits on leaving the scheme or do they represent the GMP at date of leaving revalued at Fixed Rate to age 65?

philng

xylophone said:

The 2nd question related to part of my wife pension which was DC but included an underpin in every statement up until last year.

What was the nature of the underpin?

With regard to your own pension and the GMP

6 April 1988 of £376.48 a year and a GMP built up after 5 April 1988 of £1,549.08 a year.

Are these the figures shown on your statement of deferred benefits on leaving the scheme or do they represent the GMP at date of leaving revalued at Fixed Rate to age 65?

GMP equalisation

Part of your benefit is a Guaranteed Minimum Pension (GMP). The Scheme is required to equalise

your benefits to allow for the fact that GMPs are calculated differently for men and women, although

this requirement only applies to benefits earned between 17 May 1990 and 6 April 1997.

The pension shown in this statement at your retirement date includes any ‘top-up’ pension to allow for

GMP equalisation. Where this applies, this element of your pension is shown as a ‘GMP equalisation

adjustment’ in the breakdown of your pension. Following retirement, your pension will be reviewed

annually against what you would have received if you were the opposite sex, and if the comparison

amount is higher, you’ll be paid that amount. This will ensure you continue to be paid on an equalised

basis.

The GMP Equalisation figure is £211.50 assuming I draw pension at NRD of age 60 (2.5 years away).

Ref the Underpin on my wife Pension:

They have now come back and provided the correct quote including UNDERPIN so the quote is now just over £1600 pa v the £1200 they had previously quoted. Still doesn't sound great based on a £50000 pot though the resultant pension will be inflation linked.

This Underpin is known as the Reference Scheme Test or RST and reflects the statutory minimum that the scheme must provide. This is calculated at your date of leaving and then revalued up until date of statement or proposed date of retirement. The RST is then used in the calculations to provide the annual pension payable and attributed lump sum. Although the annual scheme pension in your recently received retirement quote was £1,201.74 p/a, the RST that was revalued and used in the calculations was £1,636.74.

If all that makes any sense?  At least it is back on the quotation. 

xylophone

This Underpin is known as the Reference Scheme Test or RST 

You wife was a member of a hybrid pension scheme which had an element of DB underpinning the DC pension.

Information here

https://techzone.abrdn.com/public/pensions/Tech-guide-section-92b-rights

With regard to your GMP,  when you left the scheme, your pre 88/post 88/excess pension would have been calculated.

As previously explained, these elements of your pension have revalued in deferment, the GMP differently from the excess.

At age 65, the different elements of your pension (revalued GMP/ excess) will be split out because of the way increases are paid after GMP age (65 for a male).

With regard to the GMP equalisation. this is a complex calculation and the method used may not be the same from scheme to scheme.

See

https://www.plsa.co.uk/Portals/0/Documents/Made-Simple-Guides/2020/GMP-equalisation-Made-Simple-June-2020.pdf