Receiving debt recovery letter (CCJ) for sibling - edited

user1977

Enigma80 said:

My wife called a few people for advice, and it appears that they can clamp our cars on our drive 

Who told you that load of nonsense? They can't just turn up at an arbitrary address and start clamping third parties' cars.

pogofish

diystarter7 said:

So if one has nothing to hide and just wants this to end, why not be reasonable to all inc yourself and just let them in?

I can see the principle of it but not letting them in will just keep this thing going IMO.

One very pertinent reason might be because bailiffs are often not reasonable people and will use every trick in the book in order to just get the money - and their "fee", which may well over-inflated.

Also, IIRC in England and Wales, once they have gained entry to serve their notice, a bailiff might have considerably more powers than when they are outside on the doorstep and not getting-in.  This is why the help of people more up to date on bailiff methods is needed.  The OP needs to keep it that way.

diystarter7

pogofish said:

diystarter7 said:

So if one has nothing to hide and just wants this to end, why not be reasonable to all inc yourself and just let them in?

I can see the principle of it but not letting them in will just keep this thing going IMO.

One very pertinent reason might be because bailiffs are often not reasonable people and will use every trick in the book in order to just get the money - and their "fee", which may well over-inflated.

Also, IIRC in England and Wales, once they have gained entry to serve their notice, a bailiff might have considerably more powers than when they are outside on the doorstep and not getting-in.  This is why the help of people more up to date on bailiff methods is needed.  The OP needs to keep it that way.

Not for me. I have nothing to hide so will let them in.

Ergates

diystarter7 said:

pogofish said:

diystarter7 said:

So if one has nothing to hide and just wants this to end, why not be reasonable to all inc yourself and just let them in?

I can see the principle of it but not letting them in will just keep this thing going IMO.

One very pertinent reason might be because bailiffs are often not reasonable people and will use every trick in the book in order to just get the money - and their "fee", which may well over-inflated.

Also, IIRC in England and Wales, once they have gained entry to serve their notice, a bailiff might have considerably more powers than when they are outside on the doorstep and not getting-in.  This is why the help of people more up to date on bailiff methods is needed.  The OP needs to keep it that way.

Not for me. I have nothing to hide so will let them in.

Letting them in doesn't prove he doesn't live there, it would just show that he's not in the property right now - and even establishing that would involving them searching the entire house top to bottom (to check he' not just hiding in a wardrobe or under a bed, etc), which they're unlikely to want to do.   It's very hard to prove a negative, so it'll still come down to whether or not they take the OPs word for it. 

If the OP is polite, shows them some ID to establish that he's not the person they're looking for and explains the situation (the BiL doesn't live here, has never lived here and is estranged from the OP's wife so she has no idea where he is) they should accept that and leave.  If they don't, then letting them in isn't going to improve matters.

diystarter7

Ergates said:

diystarter7 said:

pogofish said:

diystarter7 said:

So if one has nothing to hide and just wants this to end, why not be reasonable to all inc yourself and just let them in?

I can see the principle of it but not letting them in will just keep this thing going IMO.

One very pertinent reason might be because bailiffs are often not reasonable people and will use every trick in the book in order to just get the money - and their "fee", which may well over-inflated.

Also, IIRC in England and Wales, once they have gained entry to serve their notice, a bailiff might have considerably more powers than when they are outside on the doorstep and not getting-in.  This is why the help of people more up to date on bailiff methods is needed.  The OP needs to keep it that way.

Not for me. I have nothing to hide so will let them in.

Letting them in doesn't prove he doesn't live there, it would just show that he's not in the property right now - and even establishing that would involving them searching the entire house top to bottom (to check he' not just hiding in a wardrobe or under a bed, etc), which they're unlikely to want to do.   It's very hard to prove a negative, so it'll still come down to whether or not they take the OPs word for it. 

If the OP is polite, shows them some ID to establish that he's not the person they're looking for and explains the situation (the BiL doesn't live here, has never lived here and is estranged from the OP's wife so she has no idea where he is) they should accept that and leave.  If they don't, then letting them in isn't going to improve matters.

I disagree. I've seen many Baliff tv progs and when someone claims they are not living there and have not done so for years the baliffs often find their bedroom with their letter opened, binned and other items indicating they are still there.

As I said, if I had nothing to hide I'd let them if they were polite and most will be once they ascertain that you are polite.

I've said what I wanted to say and I've seen people refuse entry, gang up on bailiffs etc but they often do not give up.

Think about the poor sausage that is owned the money, could be someone that is working hard and used bailiffs as a last resort.

If I was a bailiff, I would know that for whatever reason many debtors and their hiders will not own up as they have no intention of paying. If I met polite people who went out of their way to help, it would make the job easier and I guess we'd not bother them again.

If you own money, pay it is the best way forward or be honest and up front to get them off your back.  The only reason bailiffs are chasing people is that they own money.  

When an innocent person has been a victim of fraud like we were years ago with a brand new cc someone had set up using our address and some name not even close to ours, when the bailiffs did bang on the door they soon realised we were a family home, polite and did not appear to look like odegblyj gtihjynu and they never troubled us again. They did not even ask to step inside.

I've said all I've needed to say but can't understand why people are not more helpful if they have nothing to hide and I'm not referring to the OP here but a general observation.

Enigma80

user1977 said:

Enigma80 said:

My wife called a few people for advice, and it appears that they can clamp our cars on our drive 

Who told you that load of nonsense? They can't just turn up at an arbitrary address and start clamping third parties' cars.

She managed to get through to a solicitor via her work.  They suggested that they recovery agency may attempt to clamp cars and once proven that they are our cars not the person named on the debt they should remove clamps free of charge.  The solicitor also suggested that they can force their way in if a door is open or if a window is open, as long as they didn't 'break-in'.  

My wife's quite a nervous person and gets stressed very easily, she's not been able to concentrate on her work worrying about this today.  It's been quite a stressful time for her for other personal reason this adding this to her worries is nearly breaking her.  

We've been instructed to send the letter back to the recovery agency stating that he doesn't live here.

Thank you for all the replies so far, it's been very helpful.  

sourcrates

Enigma80,

This is really fairly straightforward, it`s not your debt, its not your name on the county court judgement, therefore it`s not your problem, and you would be wise to have as little to do with the matter as possible.

The fact it shows your address is neither here nor there, all it means is they are lousy at doing there job of tracing debtors.

You don`t have to do much of anything in regard to this matter, but what you do do, must be done correctly, Marston's will tell you black is white and vice versa.

Please take note of the following -

Under no circumstance should you ever, ever allow a bailiff entry to your home, no matter what, its not about being polite, or having nothing to hide, if you let them in once, that gives them the absolute right to enter again, at any time of their choosing, whether you are at home or not, and search for goods to seize to re-pay the debt with, you must prove these goods then belong to you, not everyone keeps receipts for things they buy, it could open a whole new can of worms, which ultimately you would win, but the hassle created would be tremendous, and you really don`t want that. They cannot forcibly enter private property for this debt, only through an unlocked door, and no force can be used under any circumstances, but once they are in, they are in, and that sets the precedent.

Another thing they cannot do is clamp some random 3rd parties car, that`s another fallacy.


 "We've been instructed to send the letter back to the recovery agency stating that he doesn't live here".

This is exactly what you should do, in all matters such as this, you put pen to paper, the onus is on them to do their due diligence and find an up to date address for him, not for you to do there job for them.

Should one of Marston`s thugs turn up at your door, keep them outside, and pass them a copy of a pre-prepared letter that you should also send to their head office without further delay.

Don`t engage with them, don`t get into conversation with them, give them the letter and after telling them verbally the chap doesn't live there, just walk away.

If you are at all concerned, call your local police, but ask for a supervisor to attend as well, beat bobbies and plastic policemen are not always up to speed on bailiff law, hopefully, sergeant/supervisor will be, remember the police are there to protect the rights of both parties.

Lastly, don`t panic or worry about this, you are just exercising your statutory rights here and letting the bailiffs know they cannot walk all over you.

Ergates

diystarter7 said:

Ergates said:

diystarter7 said:

pogofish said:

diystarter7 said:

So if one has nothing to hide and just wants this to end, why not be reasonable to all inc yourself and just let them in?

I can see the principle of it but not letting them in will just keep this thing going IMO.

One very pertinent reason might be because bailiffs are often not reasonable people and will use every trick in the book in order to just get the money - and their "fee", which may well over-inflated.

Also, IIRC in England and Wales, once they have gained entry to serve their notice, a bailiff might have considerably more powers than when they are outside on the doorstep and not getting-in.  This is why the help of people more up to date on bailiff methods is needed.  The OP needs to keep it that way.

Not for me. I have nothing to hide so will let them in.

Letting them in doesn't prove he doesn't live there, it would just show that he's not in the property right now - and even establishing that would involving them searching the entire house top to bottom (to check he' not just hiding in a wardrobe or under a bed, etc), which they're unlikely to want to do.   It's very hard to prove a negative, so it'll still come down to whether or not they take the OPs word for it. 

If the OP is polite, shows them some ID to establish that he's not the person they're looking for and explains the situation (the BiL doesn't live here, has never lived here and is estranged from the OP's wife so she has no idea where he is) they should accept that and leave.  If they don't, then letting them in isn't going to improve matters.

I disagree. I've seen many Baliff tv progs and when someone claims they are not living there and have not done so for years the baliffs often find their bedroom with their letter opened, binned and other items indicating they are still there.

As I said, if I had nothing to hide I'd let them if they were polite and most will be once they ascertain that you are polite.

I've said what I wanted to say and I've seen people refuse entry, gang up on bailiffs etc but they often do not give up.


If I was a bailiff, I would know that for whatever reason many debtors and their hiders will not own up as they have no intention of paying. If I met polite people who went out of their way to help, it would make the job easier and I guess we'd not bother them again.

If you own money, pay it is the best way forward or be honest and up front to get them off your back.  The only reason bailiffs are chasing people is that they own money.  

When an innocent person has been a victim of fraud like we were years ago with a brand new cc someone had set up using our address and some name not even close to ours, when the bailiffs did bang on the door they soon realised we were a family home, polite and did not appear to look like odegblyj gtihjynu and they never troubled us again. They did not even ask to step inside.

I've said all I've needed to say but can't understand why people are not more helpful if they have nothing to hide and I'm not referring to the OP here but a general observation.

Bailiffs finding evidence someone *does* live at an address is a case of proving a positive - we're talking about proving a negative.  i.e. Bailiffs *not* finding evidence of someone living at an address doesn't prove they don't live there, it just means they didn't prove that they did.

The whole "I've got nothing to hide" bit is just.... deeply strange tbh.  You've got nothing to hide so you'd invite a total stranger into your house to have a look around?  Why would you do that?  Do you not respect your own privacy *at all*?  Maybe you'd be happy for the bailiffs to set up a cctv in your front hall just to make sure the debtor doesn't turn up once they've left.  Perhaps they could listen in to all your telephone calls too, to make sure you're not tipping the debtor off about them - after all, you've got nothing to hide.

"Think about the poor sausage that is owned the money, could be someone that is working hard and used bailiffs as a last resort."
The person owed the money is utterly irrelevant in this situation as it's not the OP who owes it.  Moreover, the bailiffs coming to the OPs house are wasting that person's time and money as they debtor isn't there.

"If you own money, pay it is the best way forward or be honest and up front to get them off your back.  The only reason bailiffs are chasing people is that they own money.  "
Again - *utterly* irrelevant to this current situation as the OP doesn't owe the money.  The debt is not their responsiblity, they have absolutely no obligation to the debtee or to the bailiffs.

"When an innocent person has been a victim of fraud like we were years ago with a brand new cc someone had set up using our address and some name not even close to ours, when the bailiffs did bang on the door they soon realised we were a family home, polite and did not appear to look like odegblyj gtihjynu and they never troubled us again. They did not even ask to step inside."
So - in the one example where you experienced bailiffs wrongly turning up at your door... you didn't invite them in.  Then why are you suggesting that the OP does?

flipflopflo

@Enigma80

Please, please, please read @sourcrates post above ⬆️ and take note of what they are saying and follow their advice. They know what is what and they are a very experienced member of this board. 

All the best with everything. 

diystarter7

Ergates said:

diystarter7 said:

Ergates said:

diystarter7 said:

pogofish said:

diystarter7 said:

So if one has nothing to hide and just wants this to end, why not be reasonable to all inc yourself and just let them in?

I can see the principle of it but not letting them in will just keep this thing going IMO.

One very pertinent reason might be because bailiffs are often not reasonable people and will use every trick in the book in order to just get the money - and their "fee", which may well over-inflated.

Also, IIRC in England and Wales, once they have gained entry to serve their notice, a bailiff might have considerably more powers than when they are outside on the doorstep and not getting-in.  This is why the help of people more up to date on bailiff methods is needed.  The OP needs to keep it that way.

Not for me. I have nothing to hide so will let them in.

Letting them in doesn't prove he doesn't live there, it would just show that he's not in the property right now - and even establishing that would involving them searching the entire house top to bottom (to check he' not just hiding in a wardrobe or under a bed, etc), which they're unlikely to want to do.   It's very hard to prove a negative, so it'll still come down to whether or not they take the OPs word for it. 

If the OP is polite, shows them some ID to establish that he's not the person they're looking for and explains the situation (the BiL doesn't live here, has never lived here and is estranged from the OP's wife so she has no idea where he is) they should accept that and leave.  If they don't, then letting them in isn't going to improve matters.

I disagree. I've seen many Baliff tv progs and when someone claims they are not living there and have not done so for years the baliffs often find their bedroom with their letter opened, binned and other items indicating they are still there.

As I said, if I had nothing to hide I'd let them if they were polite and most will be once they ascertain that you are polite.

I've said what I wanted to say and I've seen people refuse entry, gang up on bailiffs etc but they often do not give up.


If I was a bailiff, I would know that for whatever reason many debtors and their hiders will not own up as they have no intention of paying. If I met polite people who went out of their way to help, it would make the job easier and I guess we'd not bother them again.

If you own money, pay it is the best way forward or be honest and up front to get them off your back.  The only reason bailiffs are chasing people is that they own money.  

When an innocent person has been a victim of fraud like we were years ago with a brand new cc someone had set up using our address and some name not even close to ours, when the bailiffs did bang on the door they soon realised we were a family home, polite and did not appear to look like odegblyj gtihjynu and they never troubled us again. They did not even ask to step inside.

I've said all I've needed to say but can't understand why people are not more helpful if they have nothing to hide and I'm not referring to the OP here but a general observation.

Bailiffs finding evidence someone *does* live at an address is a case of proving a positive - we're talking about proving a negative.  i.e. Bailiffs *not* finding evidence of someone living at an address doesn't prove they don't live there, it just means they didn't prove that they did.

The whole "I've got nothing to hide" bit is just.... deeply strange tbh.  You've got nothing to hide so you'd invite a total stranger into your house to have a look around?  Why would you do that?  Do you not respect your own privacy *at all*?  Maybe you'd be happy for the bailiffs to set up a cctv in your front hall just to make sure the debtor doesn't turn up once they've left.  Perhaps they could listen in to all your telephone calls too, to make sure you're not tipping the debtor off about them - after all, you've got nothing to hide.

"Think about the poor sausage that is owned the money, could be someone that is working hard and used bailiffs as a last resort."
The person owed the money is utterly irrelevant in this situation as it's not the OP who owes it.  Moreover, the bailiffs coming to the OPs house are wasting that person's time and money as they debtor isn't there.

"If you own money, pay it is the best way forward or be honest and up front to get them off your back.  The only reason bailiffs are chasing people is that they own money.  "
Again - *utterly* irrelevant to this current situation as the OP doesn't owe the money.  The debt is not their responsiblity, they have absolutely no obligation to the debtee or to the bailiffs.

"When an innocent person has been a victim of fraud like we were years ago with a brand new cc someone had set up using our address and some name not even close to ours, when the bailiffs did bang on the door they soon realised we were a family home, polite and did not appear to look like odegblyj gtihjynu and they never troubled us again. They did not even ask to step inside."
So - in the one example where you experienced bailiffs wrongly turning up at your door... you didn't invite them in.  Then why are you suggesting that the OP does?

Thank you for your extensive post.
A lot of it I do agree with.
to be clear, when they very wrongly turned up at our door years ago even when i told them over the phone thatodegblyj gtihjynu  did not and never lived at our address and we've never heard of that person - the bailiffs never asked to come in. If they did i would have let them to close the nonsense.

I'm only trying to help and what I have posted is what I'd do and recommend.

We will agree to disagree.