Polysolar windows and solargaps blinds?

waqasahmed

So, 

The windows of polysolar apparently cost £250/Square metre with around 15% efficiency

https://www.renewableenergyhub.co.uk/main/solar-panels/windows-with-solar-panels-built-in/

I'm not sure how much solar gaps cost however here's a sort of review / criticism of them

https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/31/solargaps-power-blinds/

Would these be worth putting in? Solargaps allegedly have a 22.4% efficiency rate

https://solargaps-eu.com/en/products/#:~:text=We always choose what is,with 22,4% efficiency.

Both systems would be an afterthought over more traditional solar (ie: to get solar panels first) 

Martyn1981

Thanks, all very interesting.

I love ideas like these, and vertical wall mounted PV, as the make it possible for residences without a roof (so to speak) to play the PV game.

Couple of thoughts, may sound negative, but really just nit picking. 

First off, if you are getting 'normal' PV first, then unless these additional systems don't feed into the consumer unit/grid, you'll need DNO permission for them if they and the roof mounted PV exceed 3.68kWp.

Secondly, the solargaps may be 22% efficient, but they say 100Wp per m2. Well, common panels now, at around 22% are in the 370Wp to 400Wp range, but measure (just as an example) a bit over a metre wide, and 1.7m(ish) tall, so let's call it 2m2, so that's 200Wp per m2. I assume the solargaps are 22% efficient, but some, perhaps half of the m2 is not PV panel, it's edging, or gaps.

Also, the blind idea is genius ....... but again, will it need adjustment each day? If they are closed on sunny days, then that's fine, but if you'll need to remember to adjust them, then that may become a pain, and you may face a dilemma on a nice day, whether to generate leccy, or brighten the house. [Just thought - will they reflect a lot of heat in the colder months, as the amount of solar gain through windows a house gets is pretty impressive. So heat v's generation, possibly, but I really don't know.]


Money wise. I wouldn't say no, certainly worth investigating, but if you're considering 'normal' PV, then it may be simpler and cheaper to pay for higher efficiency roof panels, to squeeze on the extra Wp's.

Reed_Richards

I've never seen formal calculations but I'm sure my house is warned significantly by sun coming through the windows.  If extracting energy from this sunlight reduces its warming power then you might be robbing Peter to pay Paul, generating electricity that you have to use to heat your house because sun through the windows is not doing it for you.  Of course this idea could be rubbish, someone needs to do the maths.   

waqasahmed

Martyn1981 said:

Thanks, all very interesting.

I love ideas like these, and vertical wall mounted PV, as the make it possible for residences without a roof (so to speak) to play the PV game.

Couple of thoughts, may sound negative, but really just nit picking. 

First off, if you are getting 'normal' PV first, then unless these additional systems don't feed into the consumer unit/grid, you'll need DNO permission for them if they and the roof mounted PV exceed 3.68kWp.

Secondly, the solargaps may be 22% efficient, but they say 100Wp per m2. Well, common panels now, at around 22% are in the 370Wp to 400Wp range, but measure (just as an example) a bit over a metre wide, and 1.7m(ish) tall, so let's call it 2m2, so that's 200Wp per m2. I assume the solargaps are 22% efficient, but some, perhaps half of the m2 is not PV panel, it's edging, or gaps.

Also, the blind idea is genius ....... but again, will it need adjustment each day? If they are closed on sunny days, then that's fine, but if you'll need to remember to adjust them, then that may become a pain, and you may face a dilemma on a nice day, whether to generate leccy, or brighten the house. [Just thought - will they reflect a lot of heat in the colder months, as the amount of solar gain through windows a house gets is pretty impressive. So heat v's generation, possibly, but I really don't know.]


Money wise. I wouldn't say no, certainly worth investigating, but if you're considering 'normal' PV, then it may be simpler and cheaper to pay for higher efficiency roof panels, to squeeze on the extra Wp's.

When I've talked to solargaps, they say that apparently it can automatically do so however per blind set, it needs two additional plug sockets. So I guess that's an expense before getting the blinds

What's DNO? I guess if I don't get said permission, I'd have to get batteries and just pop the reserve power into there? 

FWIW, I was looking at getting the most efficient solar panels for the roof anyway, before going down this path. 

Reed_Richards

waqasahmed said:

What's DNO? 

(Electricity) Distribution Network Operator, the company responsible for the infrastructure that supplies the electricity to your area.  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_network_operator

You don't hear much about DNOs but you may remember that after the damage caused by Storm Arwen, DNO "Northern Powergrid" came in for a lot of criticism because of its slow response and poor communication.  

waqasahmed

Reed_Richards said:

waqasahmed said:

What's DNO? 

(Electricity) Distribution Network Operator, the company responsible for the infrastructure that supplies the electricity to your area.  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_network_operator

You don't hear much about DNOs but you may remember that after the damage caused by Storm Arwen, DNO "Northern Powergrid" came in for a lot of criticism because of its slow response and poor communication.  

Ahhh. I've got email subscriptions to Northern Powergrid, because of my brother in my parent's home

I didn't hear about that at the time tbf but again, I get email subscriptions. I guess they didn't notify those who weren't subscribed however 

Martyn1981

Reed_Richards said:

I've never seen formal calculations but I'm sure my house is warned significantly by sun coming through the windows.  If extracting energy from this sunlight reduces its warming power then you might be robbing Peter to pay Paul, generating electricity that you have to use to heat your house because sun through the windows is not doing it for you.  Of course this idea could be rubbish, someone needs to do the maths.   

Yep, I'm completely out of my depth on the solar gain v's blind aspect. I know that solar gain is a substantial amount of heating when it's sunny, and I'm not concerned about the ~20% that the PV may absorb, I'm pondering if some of the energy will be reflected back out and lost? If it's trapped between the blinds and the glass, then that's probably fine, as I doubt the blinds will prevent it 'leaking' into the room. Also, I think modern DG has a coating to trap heat/light on the inside, or am I making that up.

Of course, in the summer, it could be a big benefit if it reflects heat away. Leccy gen whilst cooling?

Nagging doubt is that the gen isn't worth the 'faff', but I hope I'm wrong.

Martyn1981

waqasahmed said:

Martyn1981 said:

Thanks, all very interesting.

I love ideas like these, and vertical wall mounted PV, as the make it possible for residences without a roof (so to speak) to play the PV game.

Couple of thoughts, may sound negative, but really just nit picking. 

First off, if you are getting 'normal' PV first, then unless these additional systems don't feed into the consumer unit/grid, you'll need DNO permission for them if they and the roof mounted PV exceed 3.68kWp.

Secondly, the solargaps may be 22% efficient, but they say 100Wp per m2. Well, common panels now, at around 22% are in the 370Wp to 400Wp range, but measure (just as an example) a bit over a metre wide, and 1.7m(ish) tall, so let's call it 2m2, so that's 200Wp per m2. I assume the solargaps are 22% efficient, but some, perhaps half of the m2 is not PV panel, it's edging, or gaps.

Also, the blind idea is genius ....... but again, will it need adjustment each day? If they are closed on sunny days, then that's fine, but if you'll need to remember to adjust them, then that may become a pain, and you may face a dilemma on a nice day, whether to generate leccy, or brighten the house. [Just thought - will they reflect a lot of heat in the colder months, as the amount of solar gain through windows a house gets is pretty impressive. So heat v's generation, possibly, but I really don't know.]


Money wise. I wouldn't say no, certainly worth investigating, but if you're considering 'normal' PV, then it may be simpler and cheaper to pay for higher efficiency roof panels, to squeeze on the extra Wp's.

When I've talked to solargaps, they say that apparently it can automatically do so however per blind set, it needs two additional plug sockets. So I guess that's an expense before getting the blinds

What's DNO? I guess if I don't get said permission, I'd have to get batteries and just pop the reserve power into there? 

FWIW, I was looking at getting the most efficient solar panels for the roof anyway, before going down this path. 

Hiya, as Reed Richards said it stands for District Network Operator. There are 10 in the UK, they handle the distribution network (low voltage network (~13KV)), whilst the National Grid handles the transmission network (high voltage (upto 400kV)). Roughly 1/3rd of the cost of grid is NG, and 2/3rds is DNO.

If you add any generation to the grid*, or a battery that can discharge to the house' circuits, then you need to notify the DNO, and all kit has to be certified for UK DNO approval. If you (want to) add more than 3.68kW of possible generation then you need prior approval from the DNO.

*Your house is part of the 'grid' so the PV inverter is called a GTI (grid-tied inverter) as it will discharge to the local grid when there's excess generation.

Welcome to the rules and regs!

waqasahmed

waqasahmed said:

So, 

The windows of polysolar apparently cost £250/Square metre with around 15% efficiency

https://www.renewableenergyhub.co.uk/main/solar-panels/windows-with-solar-panels-built-in/

I'm not sure how much solar gaps cost however here's a sort of review / criticism of them

https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/31/solargaps-power-blinds/

Would these be worth putting in? Solargaps allegedly have a 22.4% efficiency rate

https://solargaps-eu.com/en/products/#:~:text=We always choose what is,with 22,4% efficiency.

Both systems would be an afterthought over more traditional solar (ie: to get solar panels first) 

Update: Solargaps are basically quoting €7336 for 7 blinds, and 7 inverters before any labour costs

This is based on window size being 9.6m ^2

Annual energy generation = 654.61 kWh

At an exchange rate of 1.14, that's £6435.08 to generate 654.61 kWh

Assuming 54p/kWh , that's a saving of £353.49/year
That means the blinds pay for themsleves in.. 18 years which isn't ideal imo

Also, realistically, given I'd have batteries, and given the 12p/kWh night time tariff will probably go up to 18p/kWh, that's a saving of just £117.83 or a payback of over 54 and a half years which definitely isn't ideal