Electric Heating / Hot Water Advise...

Ryantg

Hi All,

I have a two bed Mid Terrance home with Electric only based in Berkshire. It had electric heat panels, and has a 120litre immersion tank. I’m enquiring about how to get gas to the whole street and what the total cost would be to cross the 40% of the bill for the Gas company to even consider installing gas…So I'm not holding my breath on hearing back from them OR if we could even hit the 40% target. Could be 3-6 Grand per person to install....

Really I'm after advise on what options I could take. I’ve spent days researching Heat pumps / Solar PV for hot water / infrared heating / electric underfloor heating / Battery heating… Just keeps going.. I’ve signed up to Octopus go and waiting for that to take affect. So I can benefit from a cheaper tariff at night to heat the hot water. I’m just stuck on what to invest in.

I was considering Solar PV to heat the hot water or maybe Air to Air heat pump. House is well insulated, with new windows to keep the heat in. If you came from an electric house only like economy 7 and moved to an alternative like Solar / Heat pump?? What you would consider. 

Coastalwatch

Depending upon your roof orientation then I would certainly consider a PV array and heat the hot water tank via this means for most of the year, then as you suggest rely on the cheap overnight rate with Octopus Go for the darker winter months. With a well insulated mid terrace property then, like us, you could well get away with a couple of Air to Air heat pumps to supply space heating for the remainder of the property. These are not suitable for heating water so I'm a little confused by your reference to it.

Equally with this being a Green and Ethical forum your mention of arranging the installation of a gas supply is unlikely to receive a sympathetic response.

Reed_Richards

Coastalwatch said:

Equally with this being a Green and Ethical forum your mention of arranging the installation of a gas supply is unlikely to receive a sympathetic response.

Sometimes there is a conflict between MoneySaving and being Green and Ethical.  Recently gas has risen in price more than electricity in percentage terms so it is less clear cut that it is the optimum choice of fuel for MoneySaving.  Perhaps it would be better to put that 3-6 grand together with the 5 grand you can get from the Government and get yourself Air Source Heat Pump?.     

Solarchaser

It's generally accepted that gas is around 75% efficient at heating water, some is lost in ignition,  some goes out the flue, startup and shutdown too.
Whereas electric is pretty much 100% efficient.
Now if you have a brand new, well dialed in condensing boiler, it's reported that can be up to 95% efficient, however I'm always skeptical of "up to" statements. 

If you are already going with a tou tarriff, then why not look at storage heaters and heat them during the cheap period?
I'd wager they will cost less than your proposed gas outlay.

Also my last quote for octopus cheap rate was 7.5p and my gas is 7.5p, so cost parity but with higher electricity efficiency. 

paul991

as much pv as your  roof  will take most terrace house will take  4 kw and a solarimersion will give you  enough hot water about  80 percent of  time
and  even some free heating most  months
to actually consider gas at the moment seems  wrong as with climate  change it  could be only a short term stop gap

Martyn1981

Obviously as this a green and ethical board, plus the way the World is going, I could also knock the addition of gas. But to be honest, you seem to tick every possible box for a heatpump, without even considering G&E.

Already leccy heating, so a heatpump would cut your costs. No gas, so the cost you suggest would cover a large chunk of the ASHP cost, and possibly most of the way there with boiler install too. Next you'll need to install the wet system (radiators) anyway, so no additional cost there.

As a two bed mid terrace with good insulation, you also appear to be 'near perfect' for ASHP, hopefully cutting your leccy bill for heating/water by 2/3rds. Add in PV which will help a tiny bit in winter, but a lot in Mch-May and Sep-Nov, and possibly all needs Jun-Aug, and you are looking at a great package.

As Coastalwatch suggests, you might be able to get away with a simpler system, using a hot water tank (heatpump maybe if it can vent to outside), and some air-to-air heatpumps (modern A/C units). If the A2A units could work, that may be a cheaper and simpler option, but no subsidies.

Just to repeat, having read your post and description, you really seem close to perfect for a heatpump(s) 'even' if you already had a gas supply.

Best of luck.

Robin9

@Ryantg     How many properties are involved ?  Do you know how many are owner occupiers and how many are rentals ?  How far away is the mains gas ?

Is your £3-6k  your guess ?   

Exiled_Tyke

To back up Martyn's comments. The world is slowly moving away from gas.  Gas boilers will be banned and we will all be using electricity as our main source of energy for heating.  My house is NOT well suited to heat pumps but if I were in the situation where I needed to pay for a gas connection I really wouldn't consider it but would invest the money in making the most of renewable energy and insulation.   

Personally I'd sooner invest in a Ripple project than pay for a gas connection. 

Ryantg

Robin9 said:

@Ryantg     How many properties are involved ?  Do you know how many are owner occupiers and how many are rentals ?  How far away is the mains gas ?

Is your £3-6k  your guess ?   

Believe most in the area are home owners, and it's from 100 homes. So the Gas line company called and gave me two options. Gas to me only - could be 5-6K!!... So no... Or for the street which could be cheaper if multiple people are interested. But most have already said heat pumps look to be the best way going forward. When really gas will soon increase in price.

Ryantg

Martyn1981 said:

Obviously as this a green and ethical board, plus the way the World is going, I could also knock the addition of gas. But to be honest, you seem to tick every possible box for a heatpump, without even considering G&E.

Already leccy heating, so a heatpump would cut your costs. No gas, so the cost you suggest would cover a large chunk of the ASHP cost, and possibly most of the way there with boiler install too. Next you'll need to install the wet system (radiators) anyway, so no additional cost there.

As a two bed mid terrace with good insulation, you also appear to be 'near perfect' for ASHP, hopefully cutting your leccy bill for heating/water by 2/3rds. Add in PV which will help a tiny bit in winter, but a lot in Mch-May and Sep-Nov, and possibly all needs Jun-Aug, and you are looking at a great package.

As Coastalwatch suggests, you might be able to get away with a simpler system, using a hot water tank (heatpump maybe if it can vent to outside), and some air-to-air heatpumps (modern A/C units). If the A2A units could work, that may be a cheaper and simpler option, but no subsidies.

Just to repeat, having read your post and description, you really seem close to perfect for a heatpump(s) 'even' if you already had a gas supply.

Best of luck.

You guys have been great! So what I have done is contacted Octopus, and they have booked a survey in mid June to look at how I can have a heat pump setup. My EPC is a C and no advisory for Insulation. which means i qualify for the 5K grant.

From what I've read so far, what I could do is : 

Air to Air heat pump for Central heating + Upgrade to Mixergy tank for immersion and use off peak tariff to heat up. Air to Air from what I read means I can't use this to heat up a hot water tank. 

OR

Air to Water Heat pump for both Central heating and hot water - So maybe rads in rooms that I've already had flooring done, and rooms like the living room / bathroom and kitchen underfloor heating?? Not sure at this point.

Wait and see what the survey recommends. Looks like Heat Pump will be the way forward.