Trying to close Child Maintenance case

roadweary

Hi,

Help, needed, I'll try to be succinct with the facts and clear with the questions.

I am the NRP.  My son is 19 years old, currently in special school "sixth form".  He will be 20 in November.  I have him 2 nights per week on average and pay my ex Child Maintenance - the stipulate the amount but I pay it direct to her bank.

In September he is going to a specialist residential "tertiary" establishment - National Star - quite famous due to Katie Price / Harvey.

He will be term time residential.  So he'll be there 38 weeks per year including weekends.  Verbally it's been agreed that for the 14 weeks of holidays, care will be split equally between myself and my ex.  I just received my annual review from the Child Maintenance Service.  It spoke about my payments for the next 12 months.

My first question for confirmation is that even when a child is in approved education, child maintenance stops on their 20th birthday - correct?

I called up CMS (twice) - I tried to explain that as of September the case would stop as:

 a) he will be in a residential education / placement - their "How we work out child maintenance" leaflet shows that once a child is in "residential care" (this is funded by the LA) for more than 263 nights (38 weeks x 7 = 266 nights) the paying parent doesn't have to pay any child maintenance for that child.  The grey area here is if the residential placement counts as local authority care?

b) My ex and I will split the care equally when he's not at college.

"Q: What happens if the day-to-day care of a child is equal between a paying parent and a receiving parent?

A: In this situation, the paying parent does not have to pay any child maintenance for that child."

However, the CMS responded saying that I would have to wait till September and then they would base their decision on whether my ex was receiving Child Benefit!  They just don't seem to have a clue.

I just discussed with my ex when dropping my son off.  She mistakenly believes that he is entitled to Child Maintenance until he is 20 and doesn't accept that him not living at home any more has any bearing on things!

She also confirmed that he doens't even receive Child Benefit now.  I don't have the details but I think he gets personal independence payments and she'll be getting some kind of carer's allowance.

Anyhow, I'm trying to work where that leaves me:

1. If I do nothing, will child maintenance end on his 20th birthday?

2. Is the payment - imagine it's on the 10th of each month - is it in arrears (the previous month to the 10th of this month) or in advance - from the 10th of this month to the 9th of the next.

3. How can I get the CMS to apply logic?  Is it worth getting advised my a solicitor, and even getting them to draft / send a letter on my behalf?

The uncertainly is super stressful.

Thanks,
R

tightauldgit

Hi There

While child maintenance ostensibly stops on 16th/20th birthdays it actually only stops at the September review following the child's birthday. So if your son turns 20 in Nov 22 you will pay until 31st Aug 23. 

However there are a few things in your case which should alter that.

1. CM is only payable until the end of August in the year your son finishes his A-Levels. If that is this year (I assume the 'tertiary' education is considered to be above A Level so that sounds like it will be this year in July?) in that case you would inform the CMS of this and your payments will stop on 31st Aug 2022.

2. In theory CM should be payable on the same rules as Child Benefit - if he's not in receipt of Child Benefit then it may well be that he is already considered to have finished his education? Do you know when it stopped? I'd inform CMS of this and that also may well be reason to stop payments this year in August. Or possibly even backdate the stop.

3. If care is split 50/50 then yes you shouldn't be paying anything anyway, will your ex confirm that with CMS if asked? It's also slightly complicated by the fact that circumstances won't change until your annual review is most likely complete for this year. So you would need to inform them of the change when it's actually happened. Could you agree with your ex that it will take effect from the end of this school year and then inform CMS of that fact before September? I'm not sure if change of days is something that would trigger an immediate recalculation or whether they would only look at it at the next review. Maybe someone else can confirm that?

roadweary

Thank you, please see my comments in bold italics below:

While child maintenance ostensibly stops on 16th/20th birthdays it actually only stops at the September review following the child's birthday. So if your son turns 20 in Nov 22 you will pay until 31st Aug 23.  - This really frightened me!

However there are a few things in your case which should alter that.

1. CM is only payable until the end of August in the year your son finishes his A-Levels. If that is this year (I assume the 'tertiary' education is considered to be above A Level so that sounds like it will be this year in July?) in that case you would inform the CMS of this and your payments will stop on 31st Aug 2022.

Because he has severe special needs, none of the education he has received or will receive maps onto anything that the CMS understand and certainly not to O Level / A Level / Tertiary.  However, this August is his last in the equivalent of 6th form.

2. In theory CM should be payable on the same rules as Child Benefit - if he's not in receipt of Child Benefit then it may well be that he is already considered to have finished his education? Do you know when it stopped? I'd inform CMS of this and that also may well be reason to stop payments this year in August. Or possibly even backdate the stop.

It certainly finished when he was 18, it could have been when he was 16, but I have a bad relationship with his mother, so I have no way of really knowing.  However, it surprises me that the parent of somebody between 16 and 20 would receive child maintenance if there child were mainstream, but would not if there child were special needs / disabled.  DLA automatically converts to PiP as far as I can see once the child hits 16.

3. If care is split 50/50 then yes you shouldn't be paying anything anyway, will your ex confirm that with CMS if asked? It's also slightly complicated by the fact that circumstances won't change until your annual review is most likely complete for this year. So you would need to inform them of the change when it's actually happened. Could you agree with your ex that it will take effect from the end of this school year and then inform CMS of that fact before September? I'm not sure if change of days is something that would trigger an immediate recalculation or whether they would only look at it at the next review. Maybe someone else can confirm that?

As above, I have a bad relationship with his mother, and as far as she is concerned, he gets CM till he is 20 (not sure if she means his 20th birthday or beyond) and will do nothing to prevent that.   

ZaSa1418

If child benefit is payable until the child reaches 20 it stops at the end of the week in which the birthday falls in. It does not carry on until August. 

Also if child leaves higher education there are a few more end dates:

When your child leaves approved education or training, payments will stop at the end of February, 31 May, 31 August or 30 November (whichever comes first).

roadweary

ZaSa1418 said:

If child benefit is payable until the child reaches 20 it stops at the end of the week in which the birthday falls in. It does not carry on until August. 

Also if child leaves higher education there are a few more end dates:

When your child leaves approved education or training, payments will stop at the end of February, 31 May, 31 August or 30 November (whichever comes first).

Hi,

I hope this is correct, I've had different answers.  For context, I have always, and will always support my son.  But I am blatantly being ripped off if I am paying his mother Child Maintenance whilst he is in fully funded, residential education and we are splitting holiday care equally.

If this is correct, the worst situation is that I have to pay for 3 months too many - September, October, November (when he turns 20).

Will the payments automatically stop then, or do I have to contact the CMS again?

Of course I intend to do everything I can to stop CM as of September when he starts his residential course.

Thanks,
R

ZaSa1418

roadweary said:

ZaSa1418 said:

If child benefit is payable until the child reaches 20 it stops at the end of the week in which the birthday falls in. It does not carry on until August. 

Also if child leaves higher education there are a few more end dates:

When your child leaves approved education or training, payments will stop at the end of February, 31 May, 31 August or 30 November (whichever comes first).

Hi,

I hope this is correct, I've had different answers.  For context, I have always, and will always support my son.  But I am blatantly being ripped off if I am paying his mother Child Maintenance whilst he is in fully funded, residential education and we are splitting holiday care equally.

If this is correct, the worst situation is that I have to pay for 3 months too many - September, October, November (when he turns 20).

Will the payments automatically stop then, or do I have to contact the CMS again?

Of course I intend to do everything I can to stop CM as of September when he starts his residential course.

Thanks,
R

If you end up paying until he turns 20 then it will stop the week he turns 20. On the day of yous sons 20th birthday you will get a revised maintenance statement with the end date of your child's birthday. 

I have no idea why your ex is still entitled to maintenance especially as she has confirmed she does not get child benefit for your child. 
It might be worth speaking to the child benefit office for advice but speak in generic terms and see if they can shed any light on it. 
I would also be asking the CMS how there is an open case as your son claims benefits on his own and no child benefit is being paid to the 'resident' parent.
 

tightauldgit

If your relationship with his mother is bad then I think that limits your options a little. Do you have any evidence that care is agreed to be split 50/50 has she agreed it in an email? If CMS ask her will she confirm it or do you think she would deny it? If the latter then you are going to have to be able to show CMS that care is split 50/50 and absent any kind of court order what evidence can you provide?

Your choices seem to be:

1. Do nothing and pay CMS until 31st August 2023
2. Inform CMS that your son has ended his period of approved education when he finishes school this year - let CMS work out if his tertiary course is considered approved or not. If you do it before August 2022 then you should end payments in 31st Aug 2022. CMS may judge he is still in approved education in which case you are going to pay until 31 Aug 23
3. Inform CMS today that your son has stopped receiving Child Benefit because they are in receipt of PIP and you believe that your CMS payments should stop (I honestly don't know and can't find the exact relationship between CMS, PIP and CB). You might want to try giving a charity like Contact.org.uk a call?
4. Wait until September and then tell CMS that your arrangements have changed and care is now 50/50 and you would like a recalculation. 

Regarding your last sentence what your ex wife says is really neither here nor there - your (and her) responsibility is to comply with the law and if circumstances have changed then she is required to inform CMS of that and comply with what they decide. 

roadweary

ZaSa1418 said:

If you end up paying until he turns 20 then it will stop the week he turns 20. On the day of yous sons 20th birthday you will get a revised maintenance statement with the end date of your child's birthday. 

I have no idea why your ex is still entitled to maintenance especially as she has confirmed she does not get child benefit for your child. 
It might be worth speaking to the child benefit office for advice but speak in generic terms and see if they can shed any light on it. 
I would also be asking the CMS how there is an open case as your son claims benefits on his own and no child benefit is being paid to the 'resident' parent.
 

I've been told elsewhere that him getting PiP and her getting Carer's Allowance shouldn't stop her from getting Child Benefit, so I'm also confused.  I want to get my facts straight before I contact anyone....it's hard work!  I wouldn't want to contact the CMS and find out that she is getting CB....lots of conflicting things going on in my head.

Also this response from the CMS was far from clear - "The maximum age that a child can be considered a Qualifying Child under Child Maintenance Law is the age of 20." - because he is 20....for a whole year!

tightauldgit

ZaSa1418 said:

If child benefit is payable until the child reaches 20 it stops at the end of the week in which the birthday falls in. It does not carry on until August. 

Also if child leaves higher education there are a few more end dates:

When your child leaves approved education or training, payments will stop at the end of February, 31 May, 31 August or 30 November (whichever comes first).

I'm happy to be corrected, do you have prior experience of this being the case with CMS? I have to admit I haven't been through it personally but my understanding was that while Child BENEFIT will stop on these dates, CMS won't review it until the annual review and the maintenance calculation will stand until then. 

In this case the Child Benefit has stopped anyway and it doesn't appear to have triggered anything with CMS which seems odd. 
I also can't seem to confirm that CB should have stopped, I can't see anything that says when you are in receipt of PIP your CB stops - only things like Universal Credit, JSA etc.

ZaSa1418

tightauldgit said:

ZaSa1418 said:

If child benefit is payable until the child reaches 20 it stops at the end of the week in which the birthday falls in. It does not carry on until August. 

Also if child leaves higher education there are a few more end dates:

When your child leaves approved education or training, payments will stop at the end of February, 31 May, 31 August or 30 November (whichever comes first).

I'm happy to be corrected, do you have prior experience of this being the case with CMS? I have to admit I haven't been through it personally but my understanding was that while Child BENEFIT will stop on these dates, CMS won't review it until the annual review and the maintenance calculation will stand until then. 

In this case the Child Benefit has stopped anyway and it doesn't appear to have triggered anything with CMS which seems odd. 
I also can't seem to confirm that CB should have stopped, I can't see anything that says when you are in receipt of PIP your CB stops - only things like Universal Credit, JSA etc.

I have very recent experience of child turning 20, the child benefit stopping at the end of the week child turned 20 and the CMS sending out a revised calculation saying the end date had changed to child's birthday.
I assume for the systems it is easy to end when child ages out. 

ZaSa1418

roadweary said:

ZaSa1418 said:

If you end up paying until he turns 20 then it will stop the week he turns 20. On the day of yous sons 20th birthday you will get a revised maintenance statement with the end date of your child's birthday. 

I have no idea why your ex is still entitled to maintenance especially as she has confirmed she does not get child benefit for your child. 
It might be worth speaking to the child benefit office for advice but speak in generic terms and see if they can shed any light on it. 
I would also be asking the CMS how there is an open case as your son claims benefits on his own and no child benefit is being paid to the 'resident' parent.
 

I've been told elsewhere that him getting PiP and her getting Carer's Allowance shouldn't stop her from getting Child Benefit, so I'm also confused.  I want to get my facts straight before I contact anyone....it's hard work!  I wouldn't want to contact the CMS and find out that she is getting CB....lots of conflicting things going on in my head.

Also this response from the CMS was far from clear - "The maximum age that a child can be considered a Qualifying Child under Child Maintenance Law is the age of 20." - because he is 20....for a whole year!

Have a look at the website Working Families | A Guide to Benefits if you Care for a Disabled Child - Working Families this is quite informative about the child benefit. Also the gov.uk website has many leaflets so maybe there is something on there for if children are in residential care

Does your ex work? Does she earn over the threshold for getting the child benefit payment? 

If your son is still in approved training on his birthday then him reaching 20 will still be the final date for child benefit and maintenance.