Herbal Remedies

-taff

Rosa_Damascena said:

  All of which can lead to life-threatening toxicity in the wrong hands. People who think "natural" is best when it comes to their meds are totally deluded, and naturopaths IMO should be put in jail.

Eat a healthy balanced diet by all means, but leave medicine to the medics.

Maybe I misinterpeted what the point was then, because the things I mentioned are natural medicines. I'm not suggesting someone go and eat a foxglove to self-medicate that way, but they are definitely natural remedies not magical thinking.

OrkneyStar

-taff said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

  All of which can lead to life-threatening toxicity in the wrong hands. People who think "natural" is best when it comes to their meds are totally deluded, and naturopaths IMO should be put in jail.

Eat a healthy balanced diet by all means, but leave medicine to the medics.

Maybe I misinterpeted what the point was then, because the things I mentioned are natural medicines. I'm not suggesting someone go and eat a foxglove to self-medicate that way, but they are definitely natural remedies not magical thinking.

The medicine being derived from a natural source doesn't make it any more or less safe/toxic. Synthetic medicines often tend to be safer, as they have been synthesised with the aim of also reducing side effects. In the past when people used things found in nature, there would have been success and also cases where people overdosed (or didn't take enough), or where the side effects were quite detrimental.

Rosa_Damascena

OrkneyStar said:

-taff said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

  All of which can lead to life-threatening toxicity in the wrong hands. People who think "natural" is best when it comes to their meds are totally deluded, and naturopaths IMO should be put in jail.

Eat a healthy balanced diet by all means, but leave medicine to the medics.

Maybe I misinterpeted what the point was then, because the things I mentioned are natural medicines. I'm not suggesting someone go and eat a foxglove to self-medicate that way, but they are definitely natural remedies not magical thinking.

The medicine being derived from a natural source doesn't make it any more or less safe/toxic. Synthetic medicines often tend to be safer, as they have been synthesised with the aim of also reducing side effects. In the past when people used things found in nature, there would have been success and also cases where people overdosed (or didn't take enough), or where the side effects were quite detrimental.

They both go through the same rigorous testing through the lab before being turned into licensed meds. 

Taking a pill that has been through a barrage of testing and assurance processes is somehow unhealthy, whereas chewing on a laburnum pod and dying in the nastiest way is ok in the hippy-dippy world of advocates of "natural" meds. 

OrkneyStar

Rosa_Damascena said:

OrkneyStar said:

-taff said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

  All of which can lead to life-threatening toxicity in the wrong hands. People who think "natural" is best when it comes to their meds are totally deluded, and naturopaths IMO should be put in jail.

Eat a healthy balanced diet by all means, but leave medicine to the medics.

Maybe I misinterpeted what the point was then, because the things I mentioned are natural medicines. I'm not suggesting someone go and eat a foxglove to self-medicate that way, but they are definitely natural remedies not magical thinking.

The medicine being derived from a natural source doesn't make it any more or less safe/toxic. Synthetic medicines often tend to be safer, as they have been synthesised with the aim of also reducing side effects. In the past when people used things found in nature, there would have been success and also cases where people overdosed (or didn't take enough), or where the side effects were quite detrimental.

They both go through the same rigorous testing through the lab before being turned into licensed meds. 

Taking a pill that has been through a barrage of testing and assurance processes is somehow unhealthy, whereas chewing on a laburnum pod and dying in the nastiest way is ok in the hippy-dippy world of advocates of "natural" meds. 

I am aware of how medicines are developed and tested, as I worked for a Pharma company in the past and have a degree/PhD in biochemistry and pharmacology - my point was that in the past, when people used things 'direct from nature', that it didn't always go well! Modern synthetic medicines can be more specific than some of the older medicines, which were derived from 'natural' things or synthesised by more crude means, that's definitely true though. So many people assume natural=healthier/safer, when it's simply not true! I hate the term 'chemical free' too, it's a lie used to lull people into a false sense of security, being as pretty much everything is, in fact, chemicals! 

-taff

OK,literally speaking, they are natural remedies. Yes, they have been poke and prodded by scientific methods to turn them into effective and safe remedies [ thanks MHRA ] but they are not not natural.

Nowhere do I advocate trying them yourself, nowhere do I say, hey,you know hat would be agood idea? Go eat some belladonna, try a bit of foxglove, eat a poisonous mushroom... I don't know why you seem to be reading that into my words. I'm just disagreeing that all herbal/natural medicine is magical thinking.

OrkneyStar

-taff said:

OK,literally speaking, they are natural remedies. Yes, they have been poke and prodded by scientific methods to turn them into effective and safe remedies [ thanks MHRA ] but they are not not natural.

Nowhere do I advocate trying them yourself, nowhere do I say, hey,you know hat would be agood idea? Go eat some belladonna, try a bit of foxglove, eat a poisonous mushroom... I don't know why you seem to be reading that into my words. I'm just disagreeing that all herbal/natural medicine is magical thinking.

They are not 'natural remedies' they are 'drugs/medicines derived from naturally occurring plants etc'. I didn't think anyone was advocating randomly eating potential poisons, but there is a myth that natural always = good, which simply isn't true.

theoretica

I am a great believer in natural remedies for treating hunger...

JohnnyB70

-taff said:

OK,literally speaking, they are natural remedies. Yes, they have been poke and prodded by scientific methods to turn them into effective and safe remedies [ thanks MHRA ] but they are not not natural.

Nowhere do I advocate trying them yourself, nowhere do I say, hey,you know hat would be agood idea? Go eat some belladonna, try a bit of foxglove, eat a poisonous mushroom... I don't know why you seem to be reading that into my words. I'm just disagreeing that all herbal/natural medicine is magical thinking.

No-one made that claim, so no, you aren’t disagreeing.

skogar

The position re herbal vs so called conventional medicine is no quite as clear cut as it seems. Both are part of a long history of medical treatment and the 2 are closely interlinked. Many commercial drugs which are now industrially produced are based on compounds found in traditional herbal medicines. Also there are both commercial drugs and natural medicines that can have nasty side effects / be toxic. Generally the more harmful drugs are not used for trivial illnesses and are more likely to be used where the benefit outweighs the potential risk. I agree that often there is an assumption that "natural" means harmless which is definitely not always true.

In Germany the use of herbal medicine is much more mainstream than it is here and I remember going to a German chemist and asking for cough medicine and was surprised to be given a medicine which looked like a conventional cough medicine but was a preparation in which the active ingredient was ivy leaf. On a later visit to Germany I went on a guided walk with a lady who told us about some of the traditional uses of herbs and a little of how they are used. She also told me that in the past  she had collected particular plants which were supplied to the local pharmacist for use in medicines. A large proporion of german pharmaciss are trained in herbal medicine. I have found out subsequently that in Germany BfArM (their equivalent of  the MHRA) do carry out regulation of herbal medicines. If you are interested in traditional herbal medicines "The complete German Commision E Monographs" are probably a good starting point for information about what the traditional uses of these plants are: https://www.herbalgram.org/resources/commission-e-monographs/approved-herbs/

As it sounds like Orkneystar has a similar background in Pharma I've also put in a link to a BfArm presentation I came across. It is a bit old but still makes interesting reading and shows the very different approach in Germany towards traditional herbal medicine and alternative medicines.

https://www.bfarm.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Service/Termine-und-Veranstaltungen/dialogveranstaltungen/dialog_2017/170914/18_Knoess-Wiesner.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2

Personally I think there is a place for herbal medicine alongside conventional medicine and that it is possible that with regulation and control of dosage etc similar to what I have seen in Germany it might become more common at some point in the UK.