Can't find IFA who will take my DB case

coyrls

Albermarle said:

I did look through the various DB pension threads but couldn't locate anyone with a similar issue.

Buy you must have seen how difficult it is to get a positive recommendation, and that if you get a negative recommendation , then it is still difficult to transfer, even though you are legally allowed to?

The OP has their own SSAS scheme to transfer to and so wouldn't face the same transfer problem with a negative recommendation.

xylophone

Because of this I need to get an IFA to give me advice and I can't find one.

You might try

https://adviserbook.co.uk/

You would tick "confirmed independent" and "pension transfer" when the menu comes up.

NedS

As has been pointed out in several other threads recently, it's a good idea to get an IFA lined up first, as the quote you have received for the transfer value (£160k) is likely only valid for 3 months and may well have expired before any IFA is able to produce a report for you, assuming you can actually find one.

Marcon

fuzzynavel said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

fuzzynavel said:

QrizB said:

fuzzynavel said:

The problem is this £1.5k per year pension is actually a DB pension with a transfer pot of £160k.

Are you absolutely certain about those numbers? A multiplier of 106 is ... uncommon.

The exact numbers are  £1,765.43 annual pension calculated at the date of leaving. Guaranteed cash equivalent £160,031.85 

And the date of leaving was........

November 2010...Why do I get the feeling that I am missing something important here?

What you're missing is the statutory requirement for your DB scheme to revalue in deferment - i.e. increase annually from the time you left  active membership in 2010 until you come to draw the benefits in 20 or so years. The £1,765 you are quoting was its value at the time you left active membership, and it will continue to increase each year - something your pension statement should make clear if you read on it (unless you've lost the 'accompanying notes' or whatever verbiage was provided!).

fuzzynavel

Marcon said:

fuzzynavel said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

fuzzynavel said:

QrizB said:

fuzzynavel said:

The problem is this £1.5k per year pension is actually a DB pension with a transfer pot of £160k.

Are you absolutely certain about those numbers? A multiplier of 106 is ... uncommon.

The exact numbers are  £1,765.43 annual pension calculated at the date of leaving. Guaranteed cash equivalent £160,031.85 

And the date of leaving was........

November 2010...Why do I get the feeling that I am missing something important here?

What you're missing is the statutory requirement for your DB scheme to revalue in deferment - i.e. increase annually from the time you left  active membership in 2010 until you come to draw the benefits in 20 or so years. The £1,765 you are quoting was its value at the time you left active membership, and it will continue to increase each year - something your pension statement should make clear if you read on it (unless you've lost the 'accompanying notes' or whatever verbiage was provided!).

The pension provider has changed 3 times since I left the company...Even if it went up to £5k or £10k per year I am not really that interested...The actual value vs buying power should be much the same as today if it is index linked shouldn't it?

In regards to the IFA, being brutally honest, I actually have no interest in getting a positive result. I just want the IFA to do the bare minimum, give me a negative result to protect themselves from comeback and let me cover my legal duties for the transfer. The report is just a checkbox exercise to get the money moved to my SSAS and start investing it in cashflowing assets to allow me to manage and grow the pot so that I can turn it into £10k per month or more rather than £5k per year. I can make that £160k work hard for my fund for the next 20 years. With leverage, I could turn that into 5-10 properties per year if I buy sensibly.

Thanks to you all for your assistance so far

fuzzynavel

coyrls said:

Albermarle said:

I did look through the various DB pension threads but couldn't locate anyone with a similar issue.

Buy you must have seen how difficult it is to get a positive recommendation, and that if you get a negative recommendation , then it is still difficult to transfer, even though you are legally allowed to?

The OP has their own SSAS scheme to transfer to and so wouldn't face the same transfer problem with a negative recommendation.

Correct, the SSAS is already set up and approved by HMRC. I also have the bank account set up ready to receive the funds...just didn't expect the extra paperwork and legal hoops...I didn't realise I had a DB pension...I thought I was only transferring about £8k + my £60k SIPP to start with.

Thrugelmir

fuzzynavel said:

Marcon said:

fuzzynavel said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

fuzzynavel said:

QrizB said:

fuzzynavel said:

The problem is this £1.5k per year pension is actually a DB pension with a transfer pot of £160k.

Are you absolutely certain about those numbers? A multiplier of 106 is ... uncommon.

The exact numbers are  £1,765.43 annual pension calculated at the date of leaving. Guaranteed cash equivalent £160,031.85 

And the date of leaving was........

November 2010...Why do I get the feeling that I am missing something important here?

What you're missing is the statutory requirement for your DB scheme to revalue in deferment - i.e. increase annually from the time you left  active membership in 2010 until you come to draw the benefits in 20 or so years. The £1,765 you are quoting was its value at the time you left active membership, and it will continue to increase each year - something your pension statement should make clear if you read on it (unless you've lost the 'accompanying notes' or whatever verbiage was provided!).

The report is just a checkbox exercise to get the money moved to my SSAS and start investing it in cashflowing assets to allow me to manage and grow the pot so that I can turn it into £10k per month or more rather than £5k per year. I can make that £160k work hard for my fund for the next 20 years. With leverage, I could turn that into 5-10 properties per year if I buy sensibly.

The report is a potential liability for whoever signs it off. As they are in effect underwriting your scheme if it fails. 

fuzzynavel

Thrugelmir said:

fuzzynavel said:

Marcon said:

fuzzynavel said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

fuzzynavel said:

QrizB said:

fuzzynavel said:

The problem is this £1.5k per year pension is actually a DB pension with a transfer pot of £160k.

Are you absolutely certain about those numbers? A multiplier of 106 is ... uncommon.

The exact numbers are  £1,765.43 annual pension calculated at the date of leaving. Guaranteed cash equivalent £160,031.85 

And the date of leaving was........

November 2010...Why do I get the feeling that I am missing something important here?

What you're missing is the statutory requirement for your DB scheme to revalue in deferment - i.e. increase annually from the time you left  active membership in 2010 until you come to draw the benefits in 20 or so years. The £1,765 you are quoting was its value at the time you left active membership, and it will continue to increase each year - something your pension statement should make clear if you read on it (unless you've lost the 'accompanying notes' or whatever verbiage was provided!).

The report is just a checkbox exercise to get the money moved to my SSAS and start investing it in cashflowing assets to allow me to manage and grow the pot so that I can turn it into £10k per month or more rather than £5k per year. I can make that £160k work hard for my fund for the next 20 years. With leverage, I could turn that into 5-10 properties per year if I buy sensibly.

The report is a potential liability for whoever signs it off. As they are in effect underwriting your scheme if it fails. 

This liability is why I would rather have the negative result. The IFA has the "I told you so" defence. There is no "Value add" for the IFA here. The result is also inconsequential for me as I can still move the funds even if I get a negative report (as far as I understand) .. I will have carried out my legal duties which is what I am trying to achieve here.
For people like me who administer a pension  scheme this hurdle is just a waste of time, effort and money and will deplete my fund a little as financial advice is a chargeable item to the SSAS according to my advisors. 

Thanks again for the comments so far

JoeCrystal

fuzzynavel said:

This liability is why I would rather have the negative result. The IFA has the "I told you so" defence. There is no "Value add" for the IFA here. The result is also inconsequential for me as I can still move the funds even if I get a negative report (as far as I understand) .. I will have carried out my legal duties which is what I am trying to achieve here.

For people like me who administer a pension  scheme this hurdle is just a waste of time, effort and money and will deplete my fund a little as financial advice is a chargeable item to the SSAS according to my advisors. 

Thanks again for the comments so far

There is no such thing as I told you so defence. Even negative transfer advice carried a risk since they can be expected to compensate the customer. There is a case where the IFA returned the negative advice and the customer went on to transfer it out regardless. Alas, the customer then made a complaint and was ruled in its favour because the negative advice received was apparently not negative enough!!!

Malthusian

Not all DB pensions are linked to inflation so there's a chance it could be considerably more than £2,400pa, which would explain the seemingly high CETV. Only way to find out is to ask the scheme. The pension at date of leaving is not important.

Even if it went up to £5k or £10k per year I am not really that interested...

You wouldn't be interested in a guaranteed inflation-linked income of 6.25%pa for life?

The actual value vs buying power should be much the same as today if it is index linked shouldn't it?

If it's linked to inflation then yes. But you started out by comparing the actual value of the annual pension 12 years ago with the transfer value today. Which isn't a fair comparison.

In any case none of this really matters. All you need to do is ring round advisers until you find one willing to advise you on the DB transfer. You will probably need to ring quite a lot of them but they do exist.

coyrls said:

The OP has their own SSAS scheme to transfer to and so wouldn't face the same transfer problem with a negative recommendation.

Maybe. Many SSASes have professional trustees who could throw the same spanner in the works that the owners of bog-standard non-stakeholder personal pensions have. Otherwise insistent client transfers would be really quite easy - it's not that much more difficult to set up a SSAS with one of the big "true SIPP" providers than a SIPP. However none of the "true SIPP / SSAS" providers are known to accept insistent client transfers. (If they were then they would be 2022's answer to AJ Bell / PensionBee.)

That means you have to set up a SSAS by yourself without professional help. This is perfectly possible (there are no qualifications or legal requirements to be a SSAS trustee or Scheme Administrator, just like there's nothing stopping you from appointing Mad Uncle Boris to manage a £10 million trust fund for your grandchildren), but the complication and expense deters most of the "I want my money" crowd.

If the OP employs professional trustees for the SSAS they should ring them up and ask whether they will accept a DB transfer whether or not they have a positive recommendation to transfer. If the OP is the scheme's only decision-maker then all they need is full advice.