Fluffy question alert! Keeping motivated on fire

NedS

Sea_Shell said:

Not having had children makes FIRE much easier and without having to cut back whilst working 😉.

Haha - Children - a 25 year distraction to retirement planning!

anonmoose

Yes I am self employed. I never set out intending to take so little holiday but I think years of clients making it difficult for me to take time off has resulted in me accepting this being the way it is.

When I was establishing my business it was fair enough as I wanted to build my client base but I think now over 10yrs later I really need to start doing things on my terms. I am glad I started this topic as it has made me reflect on this even though I didn't realise it was the issue in the first place!

Dh6

This thread has really resonated with me.

 I too am self employed and I’m beginning to think I’m putting too much pressure on myself to FIRE. 

I don’t dislike my job at all but it seems like once I get an idea into my mind I have to go all in to achieve it. I’ve had a few stress related issues recently and I’m suspecting that relentlessly obsessing over our finances has contributed to it.

That podcast has really changed my outlook and going forward I’m going to take my foot off the gas a little and enjoy life for what it is.

Regards DH

Gary1984

Interesting discussion. I aim to retire at 50 (12 years away) but haven't taken the ruthless approach to cutting expenditure that FIRE calls for. I'm not particularly into the material anyway (cars, clothes, gadgets) but do like experiences and things that enhance quality of life like babysitters, meals out, entertainment, cleaners.

So it's a balance I suppose. I started contracting to maximise income rather than cut expenditure as expenditure management is difficult anyway with a family. I don't hate work but there's a million things I'd rather be doing instead.

As a contractor I also have the opportunity to spread my retirement out a bit. I took 2 months off last summer and got to spend a lot of time with my four year old son. It seems silly to work every available day right now but miss out on opportunities now that won't exist in my 50s. 

Babysitters and spending time with the wife just the two of us are similarly important and along with not constantly nagging her about her spending should help ensure we have a happy marriage and I'll have a friend/partner to spend retirement with. I recall one poster here basically financially abusing his wife to ensure they reach FIRE. Aside from obviously being despicable behaviour it presumably runs the risk of setting back FIRE due to a costly divorce.

DT2001

I have a friend who built his one man business to a stage where he was too busy. He then pared his business down by taking on fewer clients than he lost but also investing in technology so he could reduce his hours. His aim now is a weeks holiday a month - he gets quite close to his target although he does work a max. of an hour a day when away. He earns as much as before because he spends less time on the less/unskilled part of his job.

My wife and I are both self employed and travel is a real pleasure so we adopted my friends outlook and found we could achieve more time away without affecting our income too much but improving the quality of our work/life balance. We plan (mainly OH) well and usually put together our own packages together so some breaks are very cheap (assisted by house swapping) especially as we are self caterers. That said, as in the excellent podcast recommended by jimi888, we have recently arranged to spend more - as we’ve earnt more this year - rather than save it on a long haul trip.

I don’t think children are ruinously expensive and their presence helps, when you are younger, to budget better. We have 4 children - no private schooling, one an apprentice, one at Uni and one due to go this year and the last in a few years. It has tailored our retirement plans in terms of timing as there seemed little point before the youngest was 18 but this took the pressure off saving.

bostonerimus

When I was working I satisfied myself with looking at my pension balance once a month when the contributions were credited. I would plot my net worth against a model I had that would get me to $1M by retirement age of 65. I also put any salary increases towards my pension and other investments. This was before I'd heard about FIRE. In my model I had underestimated my contributions and also my annual investment returns and I found myself well past $1M in my 40s. That plot of my networth beating my goal was very encouraging. I kept working until I was 52 and then retired, although I still do some part time self employed work. 

Sea_Shell

bostonerimus said:

When I was working I satisfied myself with looking at my pension balance once a month when the contributions were credited. I would plot my net worth against a model I had that would get me to $1M by retirement age of 65. I also put any salary increases towards my pension and other investments. This was before I'd heard about FIRE. In my model I had underestimated my contributions and also my annual investment returns and I found myself well past $1M in my 40s. That plot of my networth beating my goal was very encouraging. I kept working until I was 52 and then retired, although I still do some part time self employed work. 

Same here. We were aiming for FIRE long before I ever knew it was a thing!!

Mortgage gone* by 40 (DH) each retired by 50.

I'm 5 years younger than DH, so effectively, I was mortgage free by 35!

We still managed 2 holidays abroad each year, and I went part time for the last 10+ years of work.


* This was pre-pension freedoms.  In hindsight, we'd have been better to keep investing and keeping a mortgage.  But you can only make decisions on the lay of the land at the time. It was 15 years ago!  No mortgage is a weight lifted. 😎

DT2001

Back to OP’s original question of visual motivational charts/graphs. My SIPP was funded about 90% from one payment - 12 months later it was valued at 10/15% less. I chose to look at it from a different perspective - what if I’d paid tax and NI on the money and put it in a bank/building society what would I have had. It was less (I know when I drawdown there might be tax to pay but when is down to me). When there was the lockdown correction I reminded myself of this - and in the meantime the pot had grown steadily. So if you create a chart/graph you can remind yourself that you are making the correct decisions and the lines diverging.

ex-pat_scot

Kim1965 said:

Children are massively expensive. One through uni, one with only a year to go. The child still at uni was going to have a year in industry next year, then decided  against it. I was so pleased.

We have busted a gut to get our two through uni. I am amazed how support varies from parent to parent. Some people we know and seemingly more affluent, have given little support to their children. They have expected them to get through by working in addition to studying, to support themselves. 
 
 

I am expecting that the "official" regular costs dissipate once the children grow up. The plethora of activities / classes. The endless taxi duties. School fees.

The uni costs are a bit of a conundrum. The maintenance loan is tapered depending on parental income, such that ours get roughly £3,000 pa to live on. That means £1,000 a term to cover food, bills, books, social, travel etc.  £75 per week, annualised.
We make up the difference by paying for the accommodation, which has been typically £500pm for outside London. This seems to be the norm on earlier threads, and in discussions with neighbours in similar situations with children studying. 

London will be much more expensive - and two of ours look set to study there.

It's certainly a sobering thought, as I am keen to wind down well before they finish uni, and will therefore have to account for a large chunk of initial spend out of my pension if I stop between 55 and 60.

That might tip me back into the part time consulting gigs, to earn sufficient to cover these costs.

I don't think it's terribly fair, but since when has fiscal policy and tax been trying to be fair?

As for the more insidious conundrum - when will they actually grow up? And be financially independent? I rather suspect that is much further down the line, and impossible to predict or model financially.

I'm not complaining - far from it - but it's a real challenge for parents to face.

michaels

ex-pat_scot said:

Kim1965 said:

Children are massively expensive. One through uni, one with only a year to go. The child still at uni was going to have a year in industry next year, then decided  against it. I was so pleased.

We have busted a gut to get our two through uni. I am amazed how support varies from parent to parent. Some people we know and seemingly more affluent, have given little support to their children. They have expected them to get through by working in addition to studying, to support themselves. 
 
 

I am expecting that the "official" regular costs dissipate once the children grow up. The plethora of activities / classes. The endless taxi duties. School fees.

The uni costs are a bit of a conundrum. The maintenance loan is tapered depending on parental income, such that ours get roughly £3,000 pa to live on. That means £1,000 a term to cover food, bills, books, social, travel etc.  £75 per week, annualised.
We make up the difference by paying for the accommodation, which has been typically £500pm for outside London. This seems to be the norm on earlier threads, and in discussions with neighbours in similar situations with children studying. 

London will be much more expensive - and two of ours look set to study there.

It's certainly a sobering thought, as I am keen to wind down well before they finish uni, and will therefore have to account for a large chunk of initial spend out of my pension if I stop between 55 and 60.

That might tip me back into the part time consulting gigs, to earn sufficient to cover these costs.

I don't think it's terribly fair, but since when has fiscal policy and tax been trying to be fair?

As for the more insidious conundrum - when will they actually grow up? And be financially independent? I rather suspect that is much further down the line, and impossible to predict or model financially.

I'm not complaining - far from it - but it's a real challenge for parents to face.

If you stop earning and spend from 'savings' such as ISAs while they are at uni then they will qualify for the full subsistence loan.