Euro car parks NTK Sainsvbury's Locksbottom

superworm

Hi,
The driver received a PCN on windscreen on 05 March 22. As per the newbies thread, 3 weeks were waited for, and a letter dated 06 April 22 was received by the registered keeper. 

An email was sent to the CEO of Sainsbury's about this being such a scam, and a not so useful response from them was received. (See bottom of this post)

Its not clear if the NTK date and date of issue being over 31 days is an issue (Couldn't tell if it was 28 days or 56 days to be compliant). 

Also, no images or ANPR references were made on the letter to claim the vehicle's presence at the said time and location in this NTK.

Before the registered keeper drafts an appeal with ECP, can anyone kindly help spot any issues with this NTK?

Many thanks in advance. 

Response from Sainburys

"Dear xx

Thank you for your email to Simon Roberts which has been received into our Executive Office. I have been asked to personally respond to you on his behalf.
I am sorry to learn that you have received a parking charge notice when recently visiting our Locksbottom store. I can fully appreciate the upset and disappointment caused to you with this.  

From the information provided to me, and after speaking with the stores management team, I can confirm to you that this car park is not owned by Sainsbury's. 
Please be advised that when using this car park, a customer must buy a pay and display parking ticket. As long as a minimum £10.00 shop is completed in our store, Sainsbury's will reimburse you the cost of the parking ticket.

We would expect that anyone using the car park to check and adhere to the parking restrictions to avoid any unnecessary disappointment in the way of a parking charge notice.   

It is with regret that I am unable to assist you with this matter. Should you wish to dispute the parking charge notice, you will need to appeal this with Euro Car Parks.   

I would kindly advise that in the future for you to avoid being in a similar situation you are more vigilant with checking and adhering to parking restrictions.    

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.  

Yours sincerely  

"

The original email was

"Dear Mr. Simon and team,

As a loyal Sainsbury customer who usually shops at Orpington and Chislehurt branches, our journey compelled us to visit the Locksbottom branch, where the signs indicated that customers get 2 hrs of free parking.

After making purchases of £100 + on 5th of March (see receipt attached) along with young children and spending less than 2 hrs at the store, It was brutal to see a parking charge notice now being issued PCN No. xx.

This to me is a total scam by the parking operator Eurocarpark and I feel appalled seeing how genuine customers are treated by this scam.

I've never had such an experience EVER at any of the sainsburys, but this one has been unpleasant due to this scam from eurocarpark.

I would be ever so grateful if you could request for this parking charge be reversed. I was advised by the store staff that they are unable to assist in this regard.  

PCN No. xxx

Vehicle Reg: xxx

Your intervention in this matter is highly appreciated in advance. 

Regards,
An honest loyal customer for very long 
"

fisherjim

I think that the gatekeeper in the "Executors Office" doesn't know what they are talking about and phoning their store has resulted in the usual fob off.

If you zoom in on the signage on street view in 2018 it clearly states:

Horizon Parking working in partnership with Sainsburys I am certain that changing to Euro has not changed the ownership of the car park.

The car park is pay and display at a cost of £2 from what I can see but this is refunded in store with a £10 minimum spend, which you seem to have misinterpreted maybe the Euro signage is confusing?

 

superworm

Yes indeed. The driver appears to have been unclear if a two hour stay would be automatically complimentary (like some other stores of Sainsburys and Waitrose in nearby area.

Any insights on if the date of issue of the NTK is in line with the number of days in which this needs to be served in the first instance?

superworm

There was also no photographic evidence provided of any windscreen PCN being issued. Is it usual for them to exclude these in the NTK? Any guidance would be very much appreciated.

Coupon-mad

As there was a windscreen PCN first, the NTK can arrive between day 29 and day 56.  Too late now, but the advice here was to appeal the windscreen PCN on day 25 or 26, which usually makes a PPC forget to re-open the case to send a NTK.  That's the point of our advice being specific in the NEWBIES thread.  You don't wait for the NTK.

A few ECP signs have been found wanting by POPLA assessors recently, due to having 'free parking' in very large text, but hiding the £100 merged in the small print.

Read the latest posts of POPLA Decisions, working backwards from the end of that thread, till you find it.  Try to mirror POPLA's decision wording in your appeal (to steer their thinking) and show them photos that show the large text but leave the £100 illegible.

And reply asking Sainsburys to double check ownership because the sign used to say it was them, and even if the retail park is now run by a managing agent, you want the Manager of the Store to please pass on your complaint (and name/address/car reg/PCN number data) to that managing agent with a polite request for PCN cancellation, which the property agent who signed the ECP contract can always do.

superworm

I got another useless response from Sainsbury that they do not own the parking

Am I right in stating that the first appeal now will be on the ECP website using the blue text from the newbies thread? Also, should I be putting in an appeal right away or is waiting advised to file the appeal (Given I missed your earlier recommendation sadly)

i.e 

Re PCN number: 

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Umkomaas

Now you've received a Notice to Keeper there's no advantage in delaying your initial appeal, so, yes, use the blue text template from the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post.  You do realise that it will not be successful, but does open the door to a subsequent POPLA appeal. You may have to wait 35 days for a response from ECP, but that gives you plenty of time to look at previous, recent ECP POPLA results as advised by @Coupon-mad. 

superworm

Yes @Umkomaas  many thanks for a speedy reply. I intend to make full use of the time to prepare a solid POPLA appeal.

I will fire away the ECP appeal and see where it goes. 

Coupon-mad

What did Sainsburys say about the second bit I advised?
 

And reply asking Sainsburys to double check ownership because the sign used to say it was them, and even if the retail park is now run by a managing agent, you want the Manager of the Store to please pass on your complaint (and name/address/car reg/PCN number data) to that managing agent with a polite request for PCN cancellation, which the property agent who signed the ECP contract can always do

superworm

this was their response:

Dear xxxxxxx

Thank you for your recent email to Simon Roberts.

As per my previous email to you, as the car park is not owned by Sainsbury's it is with regret that we are unable to assist you with this matter.

Please be advised that you will need to refer to the appeals process on the letter that you have received for the parking charge.

Yours sincerely 

Sara Harris| Executive Office

Coupon-mad

Ask her if she is refusing to ask the Store Manager to take it up with the site managing agents, who can cancel the charge if Sainsburys cannot.